Britain's Anti-Semitism

[Wasp]

Only loyalist sites???

[Jim]

Earl, you just cleaned up. Give yourself a clap

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

watched a programme recently about anti sematism in the UKthe general thrust of the programme was that alot of modern anti-sematism these days comes from the left of the spectrum, it seems a hatred of isreal is now manifesting itself in a hatred of jews, showed some interesting clips of white pro-palistine liberal left wing group members in the UK with banners stating 'we are all hamas now' no doubt you republicans on this site are anti state of isreal but of course you not anti jewish now are you?, of course you will always get anti semitism from far right groups like the BNP or the national Front, personaly i dispise those groups and would not piss on them if they were on fire, interestinly enough some of your home grown freestate facists that in habit sites like stormfront actaully believe northern ireland is a zoinist state, which i found an extremely funny articule to read.
since we are on the subject of anti semitism here some qoutes for you.

"for here surely the seed bed is ready for the vile henchmen of the communist jew. The crumbling edfice of christainity which they have built out of the ruins of the so-called reformation has been deserted for the crystal palaces of vice and pleasure. Standards of purity which we hold dear and sacred in Ireland, are scoffed at in England"

And

"Under the emerald banner which has been raised aloft by the great leader of our race Mr Eamon de Valera, I am but one of a bristling mass of irishmen, republican and hibernian alike, At last in this year of 1945, we have come together like children around our mother ireland to listern to her commands, to defend her rights and if needs be, to shed our blood that her alters and shrines to God and gods mother may forever remain unsullied. Ireland stands today where she stood at Limerick. We are marshalled together and we are asked to march. There are two flags in the sand - the hammer and sickle of the communist Jew - and the flag of our own Land

can you guess who said that

And on the subject of nazis

"the neural waters of Co.donegal were being used both as refuges and bases for German submarines. A British intelligence report observed that U-boats 'get sanctuary in the rocky isles off the extreme west coast from bloody foreland to donegal bay, but principlaay in the vicnity of Gola and Aran islands. Sir charles tegart, former cheif of the bombay police visted bunbeg and concluded that 'local irishmen accepted the vists of U-boats with as common place air as they accept the sunrise on a fine day"

P.560 A history of ulster, Jonathan bardon

of course lets not forget poor old Sean Russel head of the IRA dying on a german U-Boat from perforated ulcers and that "He was buried at sea with full miltary honours, warpped in a german flag

P.210 The IRA, Tim Pat Coogan

Of course it should be rememberd that the Dublin fire service did send a nuumber of applinces up to belfast to help put out the fires caused by the belfast blitz.

[Jim]

Irish fascists on Stormfront are an embarrassment.

To be honest I'm not even anti-israel, I dont live there and have never been there who am I to say they dont have a right to exist? While I'm against what I read about the Israeli armies actions in Palestine, people shouldnt confuse israel, with judaism.

[Blue Angel]

all i'll say is since my fiancee is from a family with jewish roots and i am unashamedly republican i'd like to know how that fitst in with all the stuff above. We are not back with the old submarines been sheltering in Ireland are we again guys?

[Blue Angel]

the irish free state as i have pointed out before time and time again had a naval service consisting of 6 motor torpedeo boats, a 'gunboat' originally owned by yhe brittish and used by them during 1916 to shell dublin and a converted trawler with a low calibre gun installed and a sailing vessel. No-one would have had a clue what to do with an u boat as setanta points out. There were about 400 people tops manning these ships - it was a tiny service as were realistically all the irish forces. the aircorps for example having exactly 4 gloster gladiators early on as their 'fighter' wing.

[Blue Angel]

you kind of wonder if the locals didn't enjoy winding up that ex chieft of the bombay police a wee bit to be honest.

[Blue Angel]

www.military.ie/naval/history/index.htm a brief history of the irish naval service - if you notice it was in reality defunct until world war 2 as it was dissolved in 1924 due to lack of funds and upkeep. Even todays naval service would probably struggle to service even an old fashioned submarine and is tiny by international standards. To service even one U-boat in world war 2 would have been like asking todays NASA to service the the starship enterprise should it appear in orbit requesting assistance. The only verified time a u boat popped up in irish water and surfaced and came near shore was when it's commander helped rescue civilians and i have touched on that before.

[Wasp]

Let's say Ireland is the only Catholic state in the world where it has faced attack after attack and expeienced the six day war etc.

Let's say the nazis hated Catholics and wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth and let's say what the jews suffered in the holocaust Catholics suffered.

Let's say England was run by a single Portestant church for years where they were in charge of nearly everything. Let's say this church is the exact copy of the Catholic church but complete opposites in theology.

Let's say the vatican was the Protestant churchs base and the vatican supported the nazis and their crimes against Catholics.

Let's say Protestant doctrine up till very recently blamed every single CAtholic for Christs death, even those born today.

Let's say England had the English republican army that sided with the nazis and printed hate filled propganda agianst the jews in there rags.

Let's say this same organisation is linked to Islamic terrorists who also hate Ireland and Catholics and attack them daily.

Let's say in modern times English politicians sign a petition against Ireland yet ignore signing petitions against other countries who are far more worthy of such petitions.

Let's say an English prime minister was arrested for alledged gun running for these English terrorists and he burned the tri-colour on VE day in protest at the liberation of Europe.

Let's say in certain areas this groups supporters fly the flags of the country where Islamic terrorists attack Ireland daily with suicide bombers, rockets etc etc.

Let's say that London was the only democratic country in Western Europe that had a statue commemorating a nazi collaborator and to this day English republicans commemorate him.

Let's say the English prime minister sent condoloncies on the death of Hitler after what he done to Catholics.

Now would you honestly not at least say that these English republicans and some politicians are not anti-Catholic as well as anti-Ireland state??

That was the role reversed to try and make you see the points I am making. The Catholic doctrine blames the jews which is anti-semetic in itself for Christs death. Ireland was basically ruled by the Catholic church for years.


I find it strange that republicans go on the defensive and the whataboutery when Ireland is mentioned instead of being able to admit and condem what there country has done along with some of its people.

To do with The British government for example I have emailed them and forwarded protests about there double standards concerning Iraq and Zimbabwe. I have no problem condeming their blatant hypocrisy.

To do with their treatment at times of Isreal I am disgusted with them and have no problem saying so. And if Iraq had a town named after Blair or a forest or whatever then that doesn't make what he done right and does not mean that Iraqis support him and thanked him.

To do with anyone in Britain who is anti-semetic and attacks Jews then I wish I could kick them out of the country, they disgust me and make me feel sick. I have no problem admiting those elements exist in British society.

I suppose this would be just like the racist attack on three Asian lads in Westland row in Dublin

Tony Allwright.
"The truth is that Israel's use of military force, combined over the 60 years since its birth, has caused far fewer casualties and damage than war, conflict and oppression in Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Burundi, Cambodia, Chad, Chechnya, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Eritrea and Ethiopia (and that's only the beginning of the alphabet; if we go to countries beginning with "I", there's India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq)."

"Why was the fact that King Hussein killed more Palestinians in the course of a single month than Israel managed to do in decades never held against him, or even raised, on his visits to this country?"


AND BEFORE I am accused of it I do not think Ireland = nazis/anti-semetic/facists/communists etc etc. Setanta earlier on this thread said about Loyalist painting a picture, I have given points that show why people and not just loyalists see things that way at least a little.

[Wasp]

Setanta I believe you concerning those three lads and I know you would help in anyway you could. I know others tried to stop them etc but that wasn't my point. My point was that racism etc is not an Irish problem or a British problem it is a worldwide problem. So why do you think I would be surprized if I met people in the shop that day??

On Isreal I know no-one has ever said they have no right to exist and I know Isreal have made many mistakes. But why do republicans in particular side with Islamic terrorists???

[Blue Angel]

thats a great exercise in alternate worlds sci-fi going there i'll say. WASP republicans are usually the most citicial of problems and faults in irish society historically and i certainly accept them. However the problem has been with this whole subject generally that the quotes pulled are from extremist sites that attempt to show ireland as totally and utterly evil. How for example can we take people like Blueman and his assertions that we are all puppets of the catholic church and brainwashed dupes as anything but a laughable view?

In reverse order - tony alwright is just throwing a load of countries in a long list together- all of which have individual and vastl differing histories. Angola for example came about as a result of colonialism, Eritrea and Ethipopa are a civil war. Checnya had roots in genocidal policies the soviet state adopted there in ww2 and way before. Look up Stalin (you know that bloke on the side of the allies -well technically anyway- in WW2) and his attempt to transport the whole populace to work camps. Its also a stupid rationale - it effectively says because other people have done worse things we should ignore the issues in palestine. Again there is this attempt to contend that supporting some parity of esteem for palestinians and israelis equates to anti-semitism. A low and dishonest card to play. And yes the arab world generally cares little for the Palestinians. This is not new or suprising info - we know they are pawns for these other arab countries.

And as to problems with things the Irish govt. does - there are lots of awkward questions I'd like to ask them if I had my way.

working through some of the other points - it's interesting to note that no-one ever mentions ireland's president during ww2 sent condolences on hitler's death -possibly because he was protestant and the whole catholic church behind all things line can't be exploited with him.

a few other points - one there is again the confusion of the irish state and the ira during ww2 in those analogies -it is getting hard to keep repeating this -but the analogy is problematic as the two detested each other and for your alternative universe to be a fairer mirror it would have to have an english govt. which has an organisation analgous to the IRA within it's state which it is bitterly oppossed to.

I am sorry WASP but Jewish opinion itself is not a solid block and opinions on these subjects vary widely within the Jewish community itself.

[Blue Angel]

and a point that strikes me - Israel was in part founded by men and women the British called terrorists was it not?

[Jim]

Let's say Ireland is the only Catholic state in the world where it has faced attack after attack and expeienced the six day war etc.

Let's say the nazis hated Catholics and wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth and let's say what the jews suffered in the holocaust Catholics suffered.

Let's say England was run by a single Portestant church for years where they were in charge of nearly everything. Let's say this church is the exact copy of the Catholic church but complete opposites in theology.

Let's say the vatican was the Protestant churchs base and the vatican supported the nazis and their crimes against Catholics.

Let's say Protestant doctrine up till very recently blamed every single CAtholic for Christs death, even those born today.

Let's say England had the English republican army that sided with the nazis and printed hate filled propganda agianst the jews in there rags.

Let's say this same organisation is linked to Islamic terrorists who also hate Ireland and Catholics and attack them daily.

Let's say in modern times English politicians sign a petition against Ireland yet ignore signing petitions against other countries who are far more worthy of such petitions.

Let's say an English prime minister was arrested for alledged gun running for these English terrorists and he burned the tri-colour on VE day in protest at the liberation of Europe.

Let's say in certain areas this groups supporters fly the flags of the country where Islamic terrorists attack Ireland daily with suicide bombers, rockets etc etc.

Let's say that London was the only democratic country in Western Europe that had a statue commemorating a nazi collaborator and to this day English republicans commemorate him.

Let's say the English prime minister sent condoloncies on the death of Hitler after what he done to Catholics.

Now would you honestly not at least say that these English republicans and some politicians are not anti-Catholic as well as anti-Ireland state??

That was the role reversed to try and make you see the points I am making. The Catholic doctrine blames the jews which is anti-semetic in itself for Christs death. Ireland was basically ruled by the Catholic church for years.

Israel may be the only Jewish state in the world but it has a long line of backers, much more than its enemies. Most of those points arent even making sense, its not something that you can just say "let's say this or that is happening", it doesnt work because the israel and palestine situation is very unique, even more unique than our own situation in the north. Your "lets say this" isnt an arguement mate, its a guessing game and to be honest the British army have their own deeds to account for in the end anyway. I see the points that you are making but they arent important points, we should be discussing reality, what is actually going on today in Israel, the modern state. Let history rest.

What happaned with the Nazis is no bearings on todays Israel except in commemorations and the like. Jewish people in Israel are still angry over it and rightfully so but the Nazis have not been in power since the war ended and the actions of the Israeli army are uncalled for and in some cases completely illegal in accordance with UN resolutions and treaties that have been signed by Israel in the past. For example, the use of cluster bombs in Lebannon. You saw for yourself on TV what Israel was doing in Lebannon.

Poor poor Israel, protecting itself from those evil arab terrorists. Not content with being given billions by the most powerful country in the world and boasting one of the worlds most advanced militaries, are they? They should get out of Palestinian terroritories properly and agree by the resolutions of the United Nations, which they have been flying in the face off for decades.

[Wasp]

Palestinaian terrorists should stop firing rockets into Isreal on a daily basis which makes very few headlines with western media, but as soon as they take action then it's headline news.

BA to do with the Irish president I didn't know that nor did I know he/she was a Protestant. What difference does their religion make?? To me it makes no difference and anyone regardless of religion or identity should be condemned for doing so.

So there you see you are also throwing accusations about it not fitting with the whole Catholic thing. Protestant churchs in Germany didn't condemn the nazis well at least some of them didn't and that is equally disgusting. But the Portestant church in Germany is not the head of my church and I couldn't care to hoots whether it be Irish, British, Americans etc etc who helped the nazis nor do I care about their religious beliefs. They all disgust me and they should all be ashamed of themselves.

But I do not understand why republicans seem to defend this when it concerns anything Irish and try to use lame excuses to try and get away from the reality. It really does confuse me. Maybe Ireland being a young country and being under the rule of the Catholic church for so long needs to play catch up when it comes to accepting fault without going into automatic defensive mode and trying to prove how tolerant they are when things show Ireland is not as great a place as some would suggest. But that is the same for Britain or anyother so called free and democratic country. Having lived in N.Ireland all my life I know only to well people who have no tolerance or little doses of it and it is the same for both sides. We are well behind everyone else nevermind the Republic.

If EVERYONE from here is honest with themselves then we would all admit to having some form of bigotry and intloerance no matter how moderate we are, no matter how many Catholic/Protestant friends and family we have. When push comes to shove eachside tends to defend their ownside even if they agreed with the other.

For example a Unionist might not agree with a certain parade and actually agree with a nationalist but inside they would probably be thinking 'I agree but take a look at your ownside before you look at mine' or a nationalist might agree with a Unionist concerning republican violence but inside they are thinking' I agree but what about you loyalists and their violence' etc etc.

[earl]

wasp said:

On Israel I know no-one has ever said they have no right to exist and I know Israel have made many mistakes. But why do republicans in particular side with Islamic terrorists???

You see, you've completely dismissed an entire people as Islamic terrorists. I don't support any of the Palestinian terrorist groups. I condemn their actions and believe that nothing justifies the death of any civilian. That doesn't mean that I don't support the Palestinian people. The vast majority, you may be shocked to hear, whom are NOT terrorists. These people are deprived of even the most basic amenities. They have no education or jobs. In some places, they are even being deprived of water, as the Israeli government has built fenced facilities around open water areas within the Palestinian territories (again, thank you Channel 4 for your excellent no holes barred investigations). In most cases, they are being used as a readily available source of slave labour by Israeli landowners, being paid pitance just to try and feed their families. Israel can get away with this treatment of it's fellow man because people like you see a tanned skin, brown eyes and black hair and instinctively, the phrase that comes to mind is 'Islamic terrorist'. Your post above is more than ample proof to back this synopsis up.