Britain's Anti-Semitism

[Harry]

I haven't even clicked on any of the links cos i find it a bit pathetic. You claim Loyalism as in everyone who call themselves a Loyalist, glad your able to make such sweeping generalisations!! In Britain they are under seige!!! Will the links you posted prove to me that Jews are under seige or will it show individuals or groups of individuals in the minority who target Jews??? Strange to see you fall into the pot of labelling everyone and everything

[Harry]

In all honesty i've no idea. My history is very poor and i don't really have any knowledge on any of the issues raised so thats why i tend to not get involved in this sort of thing

[Wasp]

IMO Irish republicanism is anti-semetic along with many other groups throughout the world. Governments and portions of a countrys people included.

Stenata wrote 'Lately I've seen a whole load of stuff from Loyalists trying to paint Ireland as anti-Semitic.
Jews aren't under siege in Ireland. The Jewish Population is actually increasing in Ireland.'
Maybe things like this help paint that picture.

David Norris Irish Senate, 20 May 2004 - "There is one thing that we can do. There is a human rights protocol attached to the external association agreement of the European Union. Since we hold the Presidency of the EU, why do we not operate that and remove the special status awarded to Israel?"

Irish Senate, 5 July 2006.
He describes Gaza as "an open-air concentration camp". Note this is after the Israelis left! This is after all the Jews (9,000 of them) were ethnically cleansed to satisfy the Palestinian Muslim supremacists. This is after the Palestinians were free to set up their own working state. And yet somehow they are living in a "concentration camp".

Labhras O'Murchu of FF, Irish Senate, 20 May 2004 - "The war crimes being perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinian people will shock the world and will be seen for what they are. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has been particularly forthright in support of the rights of the Palestinian people. It is important for this nation, and for all nations, to impress on Israel that of all the nations on earth, it should be wary about engaging in activities which could be perceived as being genocidal."



When you read these awful Israel-condemning debates in the Irish Senate, remember that Ireland is a country that was neutral during the Holocaust, that sent condolences to Germany on the death of Hitler, and that refused to allow almost any Jewish refugees in, either before, during or after the war.

I found this article.

There is a long and dishonourable Irish republican tradition of hostility to Jewish national aspirations. This has permeated the official culture of the Irish state, as well as of contemporary paramilitary groupings.

Thus, Arthur Griffith, the founder of Sinn Fein, was blatantly anti-semitic; Sean Russell, chief of staff of the IRA during the Second World War, died on a German submarine and was buried at sea wrapped in the swastika; Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen after the liberation of the camps; and Sean South, a republican hero of the 1956 border campaign, was also noted for his anti-Jewish sentiments.

Significantly, the Republic of Ireland was the last country in the EU to allow Israel to establish an embassy on its soil.

Irish politicians signed a petition calling for sanctions against Israel in 2004 or after. Did they sign similar petitions calling for sanctions against Cambodia, China, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan, the Palestinian Authority, Russia, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Vietnam and Zimbabwe?

President Mary McAleese's trip to the Islamofascist state of Saudi Arabia (where the state executes gay men and women), Feb 2006, is a classic example of the uselessness of "official Ireland".
McAleese is not particularly left-wing, and neither is the government that approves her words. Yet in front of an audience representing one of the most brutal, backward, bigoted, apartheid states in the world, she chose to state that the people of Ireland "abhorred the publication" of the Muhammed cartoons. Thus siding us with the Saudi religious fanatics against the modern, tolerant Danish.

Rory Miller, Sept 6, 2006: "Among the 120 members of the Dail and the 100 members of the Senate, not one name springs to mind as a regular defender of Israel. There are either those who do not care or pro-Palestinians."

And there is alot more which shows the anti-semetic feeling by alot of people in Ireland (not all by any means) including republicans.

[Republic]

Opposition to Israel's heavy-handed policies does not equate to anti-semitism WASP.
I would be pro-Israel but even a blind man can see how outrageous they can sometimes be.
It is entering dangerous territory to start suggesting that Israel's critics are anti-semites.
It also does a disservice to the very real anti-semitism experienced by Jews in Nazi Germany and beyond.
Anti-semitism is claiming that Jews are genetically and racially inferior, that they are the cause of the worlds ills, that they should be gassed and killed en masse.
That is real anti-semitism, not criticism of Israels foreign policy, which is merely criticism.
Or have we reached a situation where anyone who criticises Israel is an anti-semite?


Irelands neutrality during the holocaust? It was neutral during a war.
Ireland was entirely justified in its neutrality, we have done this to death. It was less than twenty years removed from a war with britain. Prior to WW2, when Britain was rife with anti-semitism, Ireland was introducing a constitution which gave specific guarantees to all Jews of tolerance and freedom.


''Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen after the liberation of the camps''

This is an example of people twisting devs legacy. He was neutral right to the end, and his censor of the newspapers was part of the policy of neutrality, not due to anti-semitism. Are unionists so blinded that they cannot see this?


''President Mary McAleese's trip to the Islamofascist state of Saudi Arabia (where the state executes gay men and women), Feb 2006, is a classic example of the uselessness of "official Ireland".

So that makes Ireland anti-semitic??? Did you know the saudis are propped up by the USA?
Guess they are anti-semitic too???


Also, this thread seems to be purely to have a pop at Britain.
This is what annoys me about republicanism. Some elements are unable or unwilling to rebut misconceptions about Ireland, instead resorting to criticism of Britain as a defence.
Surely we can do better than that and defend ourselves without saying 'oh look at what you did, you're even worse'.

The debates here are becoming very personal and petty, its pissing me off no end.

[Wasp]

''Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen after the liberation of the camps''

This is an example of people twisting devs legacy. He was neutral right to the end, and his censor of the newspapers was part of the policy of neutrality, not due to anti-semitism. Are unionists so blinded that they cannot see this?

This didn't come from a Unionist mate, none of it did.

I understand the differences you are pointing out and to some extent I agree. But the amount of anti-Isreal feeling in some countries is unbelievable considering what they face daily. Of course Isreal has made mistakes, big mistakes but the general attitude from many is not only anti-isreal but also anti-jewish. In Ireland and in N.Ireland it is Republicans in particular are guilty of this.

[bearhunter]

wasp said:

IMO Irish republicanism is anti-semetic along with many other groups throughout the world. Governments and portions of a countrys people included.

Stenata wrote 'Lately I've seen a whole load of stuff from Loyalists trying to paint Ireland as anti-Semitic.
Jews aren't under siege in Ireland. The Jewish Population is actually increasing in Ireland.'
Maybe things like this help paint that picture.

David Norris Irish Senate, 20 May 2004 - "There is one thing that we can do. There is a human rights protocol attached to the external association agreement of the European Union. Since we hold the Presidency of the EU, why do we not operate that and remove the special status awarded to Israel?"

Irish Senate, 5 July 2006.
He describes Gaza as "an open-air concentration camp". Note this is after the Israelis left! This is after all the Jews (9,000 of them) were ethnically cleansed to satisfy the Palestinian Muslim supremacists. This is after the Palestinians were free to set up their own working state. And yet somehow they are living in a "concentration camp".

Labhras O'Murchu of FF, Irish Senate, 20 May 2004 - "The war crimes being perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinian people will shock the world and will be seen for what they are. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has been particularly forthright in support of the rights of the Palestinian people. It is important for this nation, and for all nations, to impress on Israel that of all the nations on earth, it should be wary about engaging in activities which could be perceived as being genocidal."



When you read these awful Israel-condemning debates in the Irish Senate, remember that Ireland is a country that was neutral during the Holocaust, that sent condolences to Germany on the death of Hitler, and that refused to allow almost any Jewish refugees in, either before, during or after the war.

I found this article.

There is a long and dishonourable Irish republican tradition of hostility to Jewish national aspirations. This has permeated the official culture of the Irish state, as well as of contemporary paramilitary groupings.

Thus, Arthur Griffith, the founder of Sinn Fein, was blatantly anti-semitic; Sean Russell, chief of staff of the IRA during the Second World War, died on a German submarine and was buried at sea wrapped in the swastika; Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen after the liberation of the camps; and Sean South, a republican hero of the 1956 border campaign, was also noted for his anti-Jewish sentiments.

Significantly, the Republic of Ireland was the last country in the EU to allow Israel to establish an embassy on its soil.

Irish politicians signed a petition calling for sanctions against Israel in 2004 or after. Did they sign similar petitions calling for sanctions against Cambodia, China, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan, the Palestinian Authority, Russia, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Vietnam and Zimbabwe?

President Mary McAleese's trip to the Islamofascist state of Saudi Arabia (where the state executes gay men and women), Feb 2006, is a classic example of the uselessness of "official Ireland".
McAleese is not particularly left-wing, and neither is the government that approves her words. Yet in front of an audience representing one of the most brutal, backward, bigoted, apartheid states in the world, she chose to state that the people of Ireland "abhorred the publication" of the Muhammed cartoons. Thus siding us with the Saudi religious fanatics against the modern, tolerant Danish.

Rory Miller, Sept 6, 2006: "Among the 120 members of the Dail and the 100 members of the Senate, not one name springs to mind as a regular defender of Israel. There are either those who do not care or pro-Palestinians."

And there is alot more which shows the anti-semetic feeling by alot of people in Ireland (not all by any means) including republicans.

Could you tell me what site you copy-and-pasted this from please WASP? You didn't write it, I know that much.

And I couldn't agree more Republic, the atmosphere here is getting gradually more poisonous, which leads me to think that the fine sentiments of forging ahead that inspired this site have faded and everyone has gone back into their retrenched, entrenched positions. Whataboutery and MOPEry abound and frankly I'm tired of people posting stuff here that is blatantly unbalanced and provocative. If you want to start a fight, go to a fucking nightclub. I thought this site was about a more civilised exchange of ideas.

[Wasp]

Now Bh I can't give away my secrets .

TBH alot of my info is in documents that I saved when I came across them with the old copy and paste such as this below.

History Ireland VOL 13 NO. 3, May/June 2005, notes IRA statements in 1940, as the Nazis overran western Europe:

in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement [which] made clear that if "German forces should land in Ireland, they will land ... as friends and liberators of the Irish people". The public was assured that Germany desired neither "territory nor ... economic penetration" in Ireland but only that it should play its part in the "reconstruction" of a "free and progressive Europe". The Third Reich was also praised as the "energising force" of European politics and the "guardian" of national freedom. ... In August [1940] the IRA confidently predicted that with the assistance of "our victorious European allies" Ireland would "achieve absolute independence within the next few months"."

In the illegal War News, the IRA's main publication, "Satisfaction was expressed that the "cleansing fire" of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. ... War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of "so-called Jewish refugees", along with unspecified numbers of "Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars"."

And this.

In 2006 the Irish film Institute in Dublin refused to accept Israeli government sponsorship of a gay film at the Dublin lesbien and gay film festival.

The Israeli Consul general said: "I was annoyed that they mixed culture and politics and joined the anti-Israel bandwagon. A gay and lesbian event is not just another festival, gays and lesbians have fought for their rights, events such as these should promote openness and dialogue, a boycott rules out dialogue. A boycott ignores the fact that that none of the other Mediterranean countries would even dream of offering sponsorship for an LGBT festival. They see scenes from Lebanon and think it means all Israelis are bad, you wouldn't expect an arts festival to be so closed minded."

In 2006 the festival of world cultures in Dún Laoghaire refused to accept Israeli government sponsorship.

In 2007 the arts group Aosdana passed an anti- Israeli motion. Ian O'Doherty attacks the vote: "The fact that Israel is the least segregated society in the region, and that Israeli Arabs enjoy more freedom than their counterparts in other, Arab-run, countries is something that tends to be conveniently forgotten"

Rory Miller and Alan Shatter, Irish Times, 15 Aug 2006 - on endless Irish criticism of and demos against Israel, yet silence on far greater killers, including the non-Israeli killers of Palestinians.

"The truth is that Israel's use of military force, combined over the 60 years since its birth, has caused far fewer casualties and damage than war, conflict and oppression in Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Burundi, Cambodia, Chad, Chechnya, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Eritrea and Ethiopia (and that's only the beginning of the alphabet; if we go to countries beginning with "I", there's India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq)."

"Why was the fact that King Hussein killed more Palestinians in the course of a single month than Israel managed to do in decades never held against him, or even raised, on his visits to this country (Ireland)?"

[bearhunter]

"You lot are worse than us lot. No youse are worse than ussuns. No you...." etc ad fucking nauseum. I don't really care anymore. If this is what this site has come to, namely simply listing the sins of each side, then it shoudl change its name to the Way Backwards.

[Jim]

I'm honestly sick of being called a nazi.

I've been reading Stormfront for a bit to get a better idea of the whole white nationalism lark. On their "Ireland" section there are all sorts of posts directed against Sinn Fein and republicanism.

From stormont:

"Yeah. Sinn Fein must be destroyed.

The only issue is a White Ireland. Everything else is counter-revolutionary.

Both British and Irish identities have been injected with PC ideas . What can't be tabooed by ZOG , like German identity, is subverted.

Republicanism is part of the British left. Despite its superficial anti-Britishness, its British itself.

There isn't going to be a scene here until we have some economic clout behind dissent and things like shops etc.

As far as I know this is the only European country with such a tiny insignificant opposition ."

"Seinn Feinn have now evolved into a marxist, multicultural nightmare."

"We all know that sinn fein is a shadow of its former self . their policies are anti-Irish in many respects , such as their pro-immigration policies and their pro-abortion views etc , these are also the views of Ulster unionists and loyalists in the six counties . just because sinn feins policies are wrong doesn't mean we should drop the idea of a united Ireland ."

Doesn't look like Republicanism has much following amonst Irish white surpremists, does it?

Wasp your more concerned with trying to label Republicanism something than trying to learn about real politics, modern politics, the real ideas of those you hate, it has nothing to do with nazism regardless of what some failed academics think.

[Wasp]

Jim Have I posted anything on this thread other than fact? Have the things that I said to do with the ira not true? Are the things concerning various politicians in Ireland not true? Was the signed petition against Isreal not true?

[Wasp]

bearhunter said:

"You lot are worse than us lot. No youse are worse than ussuns. No you...." etc ad fucking nauseum. I don't really care anymore. If this is what this site has come to, namely simply listing the sins of each side, then it shoudl change its name to the Way Backwards.

BH I agree but this is something that WE ALL (apart from one) are guilty of to some extent not just some of us. Have you done the same? I have and so has the rest of us with the exception of republic unless he has and I do not remember it.

Well what gets up my nose is the fact that there seems to be the British/Protestant = offensive and Irish/Catholic = victim arguement everytime.

[Jim]

What are the facts? If you look over to England there are anti israel demos all the time, fact is what Israel are doing in Palestine is wrong and thats why many groups and organisations try and boycott them. Not because they fundamentaly hate jews, you are very naive if you think that.

The arguement that "Israeli arabs enjoy more freedom in Israel than in arab countries" is fundamentally flawed because freedom is a percieved concept.

Not to mention your starting to kick up that nationalists always play the victim card but its all I ever see you play.

[Blue Angel]

i like Jim am getting sick and tired of this whole thing - there is room to examine the influences anti-semitic thought has had in many directions in ireland, both within unionist and nationalist circles but to not engage with the ambiguities that has created in both communities is ridiculous. To try and imply that republicans are nazis just so make them a bigger folk devil is just silly and pointless.

[bearhunter]

"Well what gets up my nose is the fact that there seems to be the British/Protestant = offensive and Irish/Catholic = victim arguement everytime."

Fair enough, WASP, but then you tend to post Irish/Catholic=offensive and British/Protestant= victim, so it all evens out, no?

[Wasp]

Setanta wrote 'Now WASP is saying that me saying that Irelands Jewish population is rising helps to paint the picture of Irish Anti-Semtism? I mean WTF!'

Again you are twisting my words to mean something else and this is something I am getting sick of.

This is what you are on about.

'Stenata wrote 'Lately I've seen a whole load of stuff from Loyalists trying to paint Ireland as anti-Semitic.
Jews aren't under siege in Ireland. The Jewish Population is actually increasing in Ireland.'
Maybe things like this help paint that picture.'

I said maybe things like this help paint that picture, I never oince said anything to do with the Jewish population increasing.

Setanta you can claim all you want about republ.icans and the nazis, I have provided posts that prove the link between sinn fein/ira and the nazis. You seem to think that sinn fein/ira is all high and mighty by claiming what I posted about the ira etc simply isn't true. Now because sinn feins links with tyranny and how they seem to take an interest in it is not my doing, it is that of sinn fein.

Are you denying this which I will post again?

In the illegal War News, the IRA's main publication, "Satisfaction was expressed that the "cleansing fire" of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. ... War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of "so-called Jewish refugees", along with unspecified numbers of "Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars".

Henry McDonald sums it up: "In the 1940s, the IRA was allied to one of the most evil regimes in human history. Had they succeeded in their goal of uniting Ireland on the back of a Nazi victory, every man, woman and child would have become vassals of the Nazi empire. And, as Micheal Burleigh emphasises .. Hitler planned to eliminate the Jews of Ireland as part of his maniacal project to destroy entirely the Jewish people. Yet this collaboration with Nazism is rarely mentioned in the traditional nationalist narratives of the twentieth century."


It is your city with a statue to a nazi collaborator which sinn fein commemorate. I pointed out the response from the Jewish community as well. I have many times praised the brave Irishmen who fought the nazis, many times. Does your party commemorate them, and if so how often and how long have they being doing it???


Even on Cuba you refused to say anything apart from a smart arsed comment which is simply you trying to avoid the issue.