DUP/IRA Alliance

[bluedog]

Setanta now that your party are supporting the police have they provided the names of those PIRA members involved in decades of murder to the historical enquiries team?Or is the party line that of Gildernew ?

[Blue Angel]

bluedog i did not say decomissioning had not taken place. I merely pointed out it was a stupid obstacle to introduce in the first place, you are reading what you wish into my words and not what I actually meant.

[blueman]

Interesting to note that Big Ian once disputed Harold Good the Arminian Moderator's verification of Decommissioning by stating 'Good is not Good'. According to Big Ian the Arminian's testimony was not reliable and neither was the testimony of the Roman Priest who called Ulster Prod's Nazis, I think his name was Alec Reid. Now all of a sudden Big Ian is made First Minister and 'Good is Good' and the Roman Priest who called Ulster Prod's Nazis is to be believed. Forgive me for being cynical but I strongly suspect there are dark forces at work and the DUPERS who neither drink or smoke are at the forefront of the action but some Ulster Prods will not be so easily DUPED.

Funny enough the Arminian and the Roman can unite to help the Provos in their hour of need and when they get really desperate the Arminian Fundamentalist bails them out. It nearly sounds like an Ecumenical Movement in a funny sort of way but it comes as no suprise to an 'oul Dissenter'.

[Wasp]

Reid also said that the Unionist community should be ashamed of themselves. I think he has enough on his own doorstep without looking at anyone elses. TWAT

[blueman]

wasp said:

Reid also said that the Unionist community should be ashamed of themselves. I think he has enough on his own doorstep without looking at anyone elses. TWAT

He and his Roman Church should be ashamed of themselves for the Mass Murders and Tortures of innocent people down through the Centuries. They have abused and ethnically cleansed one country after another and the warped, twisted, hate filled bigot should take a look in the mirror before castigating anbody else. Just look at the horrific abuses against the most venerable members of Irish Society that he and his henchmen have systematically perpetrated generation after generation. Some neck on the Provo Lover to lecture us but that is in keeping with their horrible teachings, as long as they committ the Abuse it is to be overlooked but if a big bad Prod is guilty of an indiscretion it is to be milked for all it is worth.

[Wasp]

The vatican has killed through orders or had a hand in killing millions through the centuries. I have to agree with blueman on the difference made if it was a Prod who done something. Either Portestants don't whinge and complain enough, or their complaints fall on deaf ears with little interest shown. This is the fault of both the media and useless politicians along with the political correct stance of the government.

[blueman]

wasp said:

The vatican has killed through orders or had a hand in killing millions through the centuries. I have to agree with blueman on the difference made if it was a Prod who done something. Either Portestants don't whinge and complain enough, or their complaints fall on deaf ears with little interest shown. This is the fault of both the media and useless politicians along with the political correct stance of the government.

Well the media are obviously under the control of the Vatican and play down the role of that organisation and the part they played in the horrendous abuses committed against people no matter where they come from. Newspapers like the Sunday Independant, to be fair to them, try their best to tell the truth and expose the suffering of the Irish kids at the hands of the Vatican but there is a strange silence from elements within the British media who seem to be reluctant to speak out.

If you control the media you control the minds of the people and it is not in Roman interests for the people to think too much for themselves. They will do the thinking for you. It is much the same with Paisley. He has been Moderator of the Free Presbyterian Church and Leader of the DUPERS from day one. He like his equivelant in Rome does the thinking for the DUPED and anyone who dares raise a voice of objection is ruthlessly crushed. I had better not say anything more as Setanta has given me a warning for criticising the Vatican and it would appear that I am on the verge of being banned. Unbelievable intolerance from the affable ones but it gives you another example as to how Ulster Protestants would be treated if the DUP/IRA alliance is allowed to continue unopposed and we are led into the bastion of Sectarianism which goes under the guise of the Irish Republic.

[Wasp]

"Experience teaches that there is no other remedy for the evil, but to put heretics (Protestants) to death; for the (Romish) church proceeded gradually and tried every remedy: at first she merely excommunicatied them; afterwards she added a fine; then she banished them; and finally she was constrained to put them to death."
Cardinal Bellarmine
famous champion of Romanism cited by Schumucker p. 76

The following quotes are cited from The American Textbook of Popery which in turn quotes from the Directory for the Inquisitors

"All sects of heretics are condemned and various punishments are appointed for them and their accomplices." --Pope Alexander IV, --p. 135

"All defence is denied to heretics." p. 153

"For the suspicion alone of heresy, purgation is demanded." --p. 156

"Heretics are by right condemned." --p. 157

"He who is without the church can neither be reconciled nor saved." --p. 144


Shot at 2007-08-02

The Archbishop of Sarajevo, Dr. 1. Saric, giving the "Heil Hitler" with a group of Ustashi civilians and Nazi officers at the airport of Butmir, in 1943.


Shot at 2007-08-02

Nuns marching with Croatian Nazi legionaires.


Shot at 2007-08-02

Reception of the Ustashi Police special unit at the Vatican in Sept. 1943.


Shot at 2007-08-02

Archbishop Stepinac said this on March 28, 1941:

All in all, Croats and Serbs are of two worlds, northpole and southpole, never will they be able to get together unless by a miracle of God. The schism (Eastern Orthodoxy) is the greatest curse in Europe, almost greater than Protestantism. Here there is no moral, no principles, no truth, no justice, no honesty.

[Jim]

disgusting, isnt it ?

its bad craic

[Wasp]

Of course there were peoples of all religions that were equally guilty of aiding the nazis. Mmebers of Portestant churchs etc were involved as were others. BUT the Catholic church is the head of the vast majority of Catholics, it is the only church to have diplomats in other countries, to go against the vatican and its teachings is condemned in its own doctrine where people are to be punished including excommunication. So the vaticans stance represented almost all Catholics even though many Catholics would have been against it. Those Portestant bishops however do not represent all Protestant churchs, rather they represent the church that they belong to in that country. The vatican helped the nazis and the utashi or do you beg to differ.

See the difference?

[blueman]

wasp said:

Of course there were peoples of all religions that were equally guilty of aiding the nazis. Mmebers of Portestant churchs etc were involved as were others. BUT the Catholic church is the head of the vast majority of Catholics, it is the only church to have diplomats in other countries, to go against the vatican and its teachings is condemned in its own doctrine where people are to be punished including excommunication. So the vaticans stance represented almost all Catholics even though many Catholics would have been against it. Those Portestant bishops however do not represent all Protestant churchs, rather they represent the church that they belong to in that country. The vatican helped the nazis and the utashi or do you beg to differ.

See the difference?

Good post, no-one can deny that the Nazis had many, many Protestants in their ranks but that is not the issue. The issue is about the involvement of the Irish State with the Nazi movement. As is already stated and historically accurate the Blueshirts and the Irish Christian Front were Fascists to the core. The Irish papers in the 1930's were in the main Pro Fascist and some sources argue that about 50% of the Irish people were Pro Nazi.

As already stated David Gray the American Ambassador was disgusted with the Irish Governments attitude to Nazi War Criminals. The mass murderer Artikovic being among the worst to be given sanctuary. Another Nazi given sanctuary was a guy called Pieter Menten who was involved in Nazi Atrocities and who lived in Waterford until he was uncovered in 1977. That is exactly what Cathal O'Shannon was saying in the RTE programme, they welcomed Nazis but not Irish War Veterans who fought for the Allies.

The one person who does confuse me is IRA Commander Frank Ryan who is referred to in Christy Moore's song 'Viva la Quinta Brigade'. He fought for the Irish International Brigade against Fascism in Spain where he was captured by Franco's forces. The Nazis asked Franco to hand him over to them and then they trained him to go back to Ireland and work for them against the Allies. What motivates people like Ryan, one minute he is fighting against the Nazis and the next minute he is fighting for them. Intrigueing and interesting to say the least.

The part the Vatican played in helping Nazis flee the Allied forces is well documented and the Israelis are under no illusion about how they helped mass murderers to escape justice and uncovered an elaborate network called the 'Ratline' which was set up to enable them to obtain false identities and flee to countries such as Ireland, Argentina and Chile. At the same time we must remember thousands of RC's fought tooth and nail against the Nazis monsters and I'm sure that included priests, monks and nuns who went against the stance taken by their Church, who incidentally entered a Concordat with Hitler in 1933, promising that they would not hinder his rise to power.

[blueman]

To get the thread back on topic it would appear that there are signs that the DUP/IRA Alliance is about receive some opposition from disaffected Unionists. In todays News Letter it is claimed that some UUP MLA's are considering withdrawing from the Assembly and starting a new umbrella group to oppose what they consider to be a 'corrupt' government.

Big Ian's antics cuddling and kissing Marty have not went down well in some Unionist circles. Apparently not every Unionist believes the not so Reverend Doctor McCrea that it was both him and Big Ian who crushed the Provos. Indeed there many letters have appeared in recent weeks calling the gospel singer a downright liar cosidering neither him or Big Ian ever had a uniform on their back.

This new grouping is to be unveiled in September and it will be most interesting to see who is involved. I personally believe it will be a good thing and it is about time somebody challenged the DUPERS and their bedfellows in Sinn Fein/IRA. Hopefully the Ulster people will reorganise and once and for all get Paisley and his ilk off their backs forever.

[Blue Angel]

pure prejudice seems to be the source - i might as well equally claim that 50 per cent of people in the UK believe Superman to be a real figure. The point about Nazis settling in America was made before also when I think Setanta pointed out how much of current technology came from that source via people like Von Braun and the space race later on. I don't see Blueman slagging of the US though for using a man who was known to have used slave labour to head up it's major scientific projects of the 1960's. Or slagging of the UK and US for employing so many ex SS members to help out with intelligence duties during the cold war...

[Wasp]

Setanta thanks for the links but do you have any from a more reliable source?

On excommunication I was stating Catholic doctrine and in Croatia the pope himself threatend to excommunicate every single Catholic that took part in the war criimes trial, but the Catholics who were mainly peasants went ahead. I will get back to you if you wish to see whether or not they were actually excommunicated.

Well on H. O'Flaherty I have to say I admire him and the stance he took along with all those who helped him. But did I say no Catholic clergy or otherwise ever opposed the nazis??

I did say that the vaticans stance represented most Catholics even though many would be against it.

[Blue Angel]

a point about that bloke artikovic, he was in ireland for less than 12 months and then on the run again, he spent more time in both switzerland (and as setanta pointed out) california but we don't hear the swiss or americans getting hammered do we?