Anger at loyalist grave memorial

[Wasp]

jim said:

I just read in the Guardian today that the US have been interning and torturing suspects on UK foreign territory in the Indian ocean I believe.

Where are the condemnations? Cuba get bollocks for having 70 prisoners while the US and UK are in on the most brutal internmets since world war 2.

Jim you need to read up more on Cuba mate. If these suspects were tortured then I wholly condemn it and I would want an investigation to the extent of any torturing going on and an explanation why this torture took place on British soil. If it was without knowledge then why were British representatives not present when this went on, that is if it did.

Jim is it fact or an allegation?

[Wasp]

Jim remember you said about the great health care in Cuba and how it was the best. Take a look mate.

'apologists who have been saying for 49 years that it is OK for Cubans not to have human rights, not to be able to choose their system of government, not to have a free press, not to be able to criticize the brutal regime oppressing them, because after all they do have " a free and excellent health care."


www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8T4SinsfWQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8N5HFzd1zk

How can Castro complain about a 'US blockade' when he is able to sell to foreigners in Cuba all kind of computer equipment manufactured by US companies?

[Jim]

wasp said:

jim said:

I just read in the Guardian today that the US have been interning and torturing suspects on UK foreign territory in the Indian ocean I believe.

Where are the condemnations? Cuba get bollocks for having 70 prisoners while the US and UK are in on the most brutal internmets since world war 2.

Jim you need to read up more on Cuba mate. If these suspects were tortured then I wholly condemn it and I would want an investigation to the extent of any torturing going on and an explanation why this torture took place on British soil. If it was without knowledge then why were British representatives not present when this went on, that is if it did.

Jim is it fact or an allegation?

I've read plenty about Cuba tbh. It is with knowledge that this torture is going on, the CIA have been using British airports to transport these suspects for the corners of the earth. Has cuba been doing this?

My point is every country has these types of dealings, so why single out cuba for this?

'apologists who have been saying for 49 years that it is OK for Cubans not to have human rights, not to be able to choose their system of government, not to have a free press, not to be able to criticize the brutal regime oppressing them, because after all they do have " a free and excellent health care."

1. Cubans do have human rights.
2. Chosing a system of government is a farse in the first place for nation-states, weither its a socialist or a capitalist government doesnt matter they meet the same goals.
3. Its not like America or Britain can pride themselves on free press. The British government has control over the BBC anyway, one of the largest news corporations in the world.
4. Its as brutal as any western regime.

Why Wasp? Why? Why because your told to be against something, that you are against it? Your told to be against Cuba for the reasons above, your told that democracy really matters while the reality is it doesnt, your gobbling up all the shite of the day because your told too, real politics isnt based on democracy and its not based on choice, its situation, its reactionary and its whats happening right now.

If you think the people of Britain and the US have a say in what goes on in their foreign and domestic policy then you are very mistaken. Millions took to the streets to fight an illegal war, they lost, thats one example.

[Wasp]

No-one told me to be against Cuba or anyone else, I have the choice to support it or be against it and I am very much against it and it didn't take any government to tell me as I take there word most of the time with a pinchj of salt.

I could say the same the other way around about you and your admiration for Cuba. Please tell me what human rights do they have, tell me about the healthcare and why tourists use different hospitals than locals.

Why is Castro's Cuba is one of the few places on Earth where having a home computer is considered a crime. All the equipment being offered by Tecun is ONLY FOR FOREIGNERS.

[Jim]

Then why are you inheritantly against anything that your government and the american government is against? You seem to just follow what they say.

Where did I say I admired cuba? I respect its legitimacy in the situation with surrounding countries and the threat of invasion, thats about it.

Where can you show me that owning a home computer is a crime or that tourists use different hospitals?

[Wasp]

Now now Jim you said if you want to see socialism in action look at Cuba and there great health care etc. Isn't that admiration?

On computers heres a link

tecun.cimex.com.cu/tecun/default.htm

And remember, that many Cubans have been sent to jail when the police found out that they had a computer at home.

[Jim]

wasp said:

Now now Jim you said if you want to see socialism in action look at Cuba and there great health care etc. Isn't that admiration?

On computers heres a link

tecun.cimex.com.cu/tecun/default.htm

And remember, that many Cubans have been sent to jail when the police found out that they had a computer at home.

Thats not admiration, its an example. I could say look at Thatcher's era for the free market in action, am I admiring her there?

I can't read Spanish, but that looks like a computer website?

Economic sanctions from the most powerful country in the world does a lot of damage to the economy of a country. Its not even a matter of being allowed to own a computer its a matter of being able to afford it. Lift the sanctions and you'll see a normal country again.

[bearhunter]

Jim: 1. Cubans do have human rights.

Yes, they have the right to be locked up for exercising them.


2. Chosing a system of government is a farse in the first place for nation-states, weither its a socialist or a capitalist government doesnt matter they meet the same goals.

So you'd rather Govts chose themselves?


3. Its not like America or Britain can pride themselves on free press. The British government has control over the BBC anyway, one of the largest news corporations in the world.

No it doesn't. The BBC was set up by Royal charter and can only be dismatled by the same instrument. The Government can not dissolve the BBC. As for the press, how many government ministers have been knocked down by the press in the UK?

4. Its as brutal as any western regime.

That's not an argument. That's whataboutery.

The rush to defend the honour of brave and noble little Cuba is admirable, but I think it is misplaced. Cuba is not and never will be a major threat to anyone, so the USA's overreaction to the revolution there would be laughable were it not so sad. However, Castro, like so many other revolutionaries, just can't seem to let go of the reins once he has them and feels no compunction about susapending people's human rights (and, occasionally people) to protect the principles of the revolution. It will crumble when he dies and we might get to the truth about what a paradise Cuba is.

[Jim]

Weither or not Governments chose themselves is sometimes for the better, democracy is important, but not essential in some situations. Would it make you feel better that the people in Cuba get to chose who dominates them? Its either Castro or a cuban version of whoever is in power in America. There doesnt seem to be many in-betweens and the Castro regime still has plenty of support regardless of its many imperfections.

Mate the Government appointed the heads of the BBC themselves untill recently, and there were times back in Thatchers day where they threatened all sorts against the BBC and it usually worked to get the governments view in, I dont believe for a second the BBC is impartial. When you knock out a government minister it makes little effect after the controversey dissolves, your just knocking out a puppet, they just carry policy, nothing else. Its sad, but its the reality of Government.

Its not whataboutery, its an argument which I already discussed. What Cuba does is no different from what America does, what the UK does, what the UK done infact, and what other countries do. They just do it in different ways. Some countries are more open about it than others, some are more subtle than others, they put different wordings on it, and some will do what they can so the media will not know much of it.

Castro is on his last legs, but the country isnt going to change untill American aggression ceases and they knock it on the head. Maybe we will see a democratic Cuba in a few years time but it'll not be under a false flag either.

[Shades40]

Back on topic................

"Serial LVF murderer Mark Fulton 'made a significant contribution to civic life in the borough and achieved significant national or international recognition'

That's what the council regulation states in order for a memorial to be erected on council property.
Dessie Trainor who's mum was shot dead in Portadowns 'peoples park' by the UVF in 1975 because she was having a 'mixed' relationship was REFUSED permission by the council to erect a plague in the park, council workers tore the plague from the tree and threatened prosecution.

What a pack of idiots we have running our borough!!!!

[Shades40]

It was in SW although strangely enough the local media ignored it, if you went by the local media here you would be asking who are the LVF.