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Post by Republic on Oct 27, 2009 0:42:30 GMT
Recently, there has been nothing 'forward' thinking put forth on this site.
Theres been a lot of arguments, point scoring and harmless chit chat.
What I would like to ask our posters is, how or what would you do to make the other side come around to agreeing with your political views?
Is it possible?
Republicans, how could you persuade unionists to support a united Ireland?
Unionists, how can you persuade nationalists that the UK is the best place for them?
Or is persuasion pointless?
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Post by Republic on Oct 27, 2009 13:24:24 GMT
OK, thats a fair point, maybe I should ask where can you find common ground with the ''other side''?
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Post by Wasp on Oct 27, 2009 14:53:49 GMT
The problem with common ground for me is the problem my community has with republicans as in those republicans who supported the sectarian campaign against us. As well as this sinn fein do as much as they can to antagonize my community with petty complaints repeated over and over again such as searching the net to see what the can be offended at and discovered Princess Diana mugs etc, thier lack of action in places like Rasharkin concerning many continuing attacks on Protestants yet plenty of action concerning an annunal band parade that lasts about 30 mins to pass, them complaining that Unionists didnt even open the door for them or say hello in Belfast city hall in the 80's which is a time when these same politicians endorsed the ira's bombing and assasination campaign which included Unionist politicians as targets. The list is endless and sinn feins's hypocricy and lies are equally endless.
I do see some with republican sentiments moving closer to the to their Unionist neighbours and being able to sit down and socialize with eachother and finding common ground on things like education or the latest news, I have seen some who supported the ira regretting thier support and coming to understand the situation from a truer perspective where even their aspirations of a UI are taking a back seat or further down the list of their needs and wishes. I have seen changes on here no matter how small from people like Jim stating he is also British, he supports N.Ireland and has condemned quite alot of the ira's campaign which is a big sticking point for Unionists.
If the likes of say Earl, Collina and Jim were politicians I know there would be much smaller barriers between bothsides compared to the lying rabble which we currently have within sinn fein in N.Ireland and by that I mean most if not all within sinn fein in N.I
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Post by Wasp on Oct 27, 2009 14:55:29 GMT
Regarding setantas points I agree with crime completely but the other points in part or not at all.
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Post by Republic on Oct 28, 2009 10:52:20 GMT
Would unionists support this? Hell, would nationalists support? Is there a demand for an end to religious interference and academic selection? Again, is this your ideology shining through or could you really find common ground here? Thats fine, I think everyone, everywhere, always wants better public transport. OK. That might not be supported even in your own community, some may support nuclear power, I don't know. OK, common sense approach. Setanta, is there anything you would be willing to compromise on, in order to co-operate better with unionists? Say for example, nuclear power (thats just an example as I know you are opposed to it). What would you be willing to compromise on in order to further co-operation with unionists? Likewise WASP, what would you compromise on? |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 28, 2009 16:12:59 GMT
Republic I want to address your and setantas points so dont think all my points are aimed at just one of you or both of you together.
On academic selection setanta you are wrong, I am working class and I want it to stay just like many other working class Protestants. I have listened to Protestant parents from working class areas on say for example the Nolan show who want it to stay and going by my own personal knowledge the vast majority of the PUL community want academic selection to remain but that doesnt mean them all.
On the NHS I like everyone else hopes for a first class health service, but for me definately not a 32 county one.
On the religious question regarding schools there are few Protestant schools in N.Ireland but hundreds of catholic schools, the state schools are there for all but if catholic parents want the catholic church to educate there children or be incharge of their childs education then that is up to them but the state schools are already in place and always have been in place for everyone.
I have never heard any school here discriminate against children the way schools in the republic have done. There may be a case or 2 but that is only a guess as I have never heard of anything like that.
Setanta instead of answering a question with a question why not answer republics questions with an answer.
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Post by Republic on Oct 29, 2009 8:56:34 GMT
Ok lads, I didn't really come in here with any ideas in mind, I just wanted to start a discussion on areas where nationalists/unionists could work together.
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Post by Republic on Oct 29, 2009 9:08:24 GMT
On academic selection. The working classes parties on both sides of the community want an end to it. . Key here is working class, what about middle class unionists/nationalists? Would you be willing to compromise on this? What about the Dutch healthcare system, is that not better than the NHS? private healthcare, but evryone is covered. Nothing like the US system AFAIK. Thats a ridiculous and condescending thing to say. So anyone who is in favour of it is simply misinformed? Is that not a problem with waste management rather than the plant itself? I have no idea what to with nuclear waste, I'm not an expert and I have not really got a position on nuclear power, as I don't know enough about it. We could always shoot the waste off into space ;D [/quote] Such as what Republic?[/quote] I don't know. I know its a bit futile discussing compromise yet, because no one is in a situation where they have to compromise. Obviously no one is going to say 'ok I could go against my beliefs on this issue and that issue'. But I was just trying to start a discussion. Setanta, for arguments sake (and I'm just making this up off the top of my head), the DUP would agree to a SF politician being justice minister, in return for a committment to nuclear power or the continuation of academic selection. Would you do the deal? Its not really compromise if you and the unionist working class just agree on things. What would you really be able to do with your polar opposites, the unionists upper classes? |
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Post by Republic on Oct 29, 2009 9:11:31 GMT
Republic I want to address your and setantas points so dont think all my points are aimed at just one of you or both of you together. On academic selection setanta you are wrong, I am working class and I want it to stay just like many other working class Protestants. I have listened to Protestant parents from working class areas on say for example the Nolan show who want it to stay and going by my own personal knowledge the vast majority of the PUL community want academic selection to remain but that doesnt mean them all. On the NHS I like everyone else hopes for a first class health service, but for me definately not a 32 county one. On the religious question regarding schools there are few Protestant schools in N.Ireland but hundreds of catholic schools, the state schools are there for all but if catholic parents want the catholic church to educate there children or be incharge of their childs education then that is up to them but the state schools are already in place and always have been in place for everyone. I have never heard any school here discriminate against children the way schools in the republic have done. There may be a case or 2 but that is only a guess as I have never heard of anything like that. Setanta instead of answering a question with a question why not answer republics questions with an answer. There you go lads, how do you both compromise on this? Religious influence in schools and academic selection. You both seem to be a bit away from compromising! No politicians answers now Setanta  |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 29, 2009 9:53:04 GMT
Being complacent concerning education can be a bad thing so I will always want what's best for children. Academic selection has proved itself and it is society that has let children down not academic selection. BUT I am open to anything that could potentially make academic selection better so I am willing to compromise on it.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 29, 2009 11:48:02 GMT
I would say with regards to religous schools that I agree with other posters, if parents particularly want chidlren to go to such schools then schools such as this should be funded privately. Also, many schoosl that call themselves Church schools have children of parents who are at best nominal Christians and rarerly attend mas or a church. I know from talking to Americans that there if kids want to be accepted for a Church school (Catholic or Protestant) the parents must have some record of attending mass or services. Where I went to school was a Catholic school, but a lot of parents only wanted kids to go there because of it's very high exam results not because of any attachment to their faith. Also, and it may surprise WASP most I think, I think the Church in Ireland made a real bollox of running the school system and let the principles of charity and kindness lapse to be replaced by an ultra-montanist and at times almost fanatical approach.
As to nuclear power, sellafield (or windscale as we shoudl call it till the British govt. rename it yet again) is a badly designed power station which was originally designed for research for the UK's atom bomb project due to the US refusing to share technology on this (despite telling it's allies in WW2 it would). It might interest people here to know that a similar design of reactor went critical about 70 miles aways from where my wife comes from, as a result all towns nearby were declared closed zones and are now forbidden to visit except with formal Russian govt. permission, the level of cancer in the 50 miles or so surrounding this area is ludicrously high. By the way, windscale is a very similar design (although on a smaller scale) to this reactor. Imagine the catastrophe of a reactor going critical in the Uk. Russia has a huge landmass, the UK does not, one reactor going critical would cause massive damage for Britian and Ireland for the next century or so.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 29, 2009 12:00:01 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_DisasterNotice why the Soviets built this reactor originally -for exactly the same reason as the Uk. I can tell you the area looks mighty screwed up still and the level of radiation in the two towns that provided the workforce (and never appeared on official maps) is still 50 times higher than normal. Foreigners are banned from even approaching the area, I got away with looking at it from a large distance because so long as I kept my mouth shut I didn't look noticeably foreign. This is a nuclear disaster that is largely unknown but people in the UK should be aware of it i think as many of the faults that led to it led to the windscale disaster, the british were just more lucky in that a major crisis didn't arise from it.
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Post by Jim on Oct 29, 2009 17:14:48 GMT
I have no interest in persuading anyone about anything, especially not unionists. A wee chat about the benefits of a UI isnt going to turn them green to the core.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 29, 2009 19:42:06 GMT
I agree with Jim that just chatting to Unionists is not going to suddenly make them greener than green, one of the weaknesses of Sinn Fein I have always felts is that it takes a somewhat condescending tone at times whereby it believes that if we only explain to unionists how thing 'really are' they will suddenly swap over to our side.
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Post by Republic on Oct 29, 2009 19:49:22 GMT
I have no interest in persuading anyone about anything, especially not unionists. A wee chat about the benefits of a UI isnt going to turn them green to the core. I'm not asking that. What areas would you be willing to compromise on? |
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