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Post by Jim on Mar 19, 2008 18:02:31 GMT
I hate it when irish websites/magazines/tv shows interview bands.
Doesnt say anything about where I can get it or read it though.
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 1:24:49 GMT
Cuz it feels like theyre trying too hard to be modern and to attract younger people and it doesnt work.
Not talking about that magazine specifically, I've not read it.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 21, 2008 0:09:22 GMT
cluain a chur ar na gáirí;
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Post by Bilk on Mar 25, 2008 16:42:36 GMT
I think it is wrong and rude to speak in a language that you know the vast majority of people listening cannot understand. That is not just a statement about Irish, it also applies to poles etc in a room full of people who speak to each other in their native tounge, knowing that the only people in the room who understand it are themselves. I understand this logic if you have just disembarked in Ireland and can't speak English, but to do it which they do, when they can speak perfect English is downright rude. Now in relation to those who chat away in the Irish language, few I admit, the same applies to them. To speak a different language in a predoninently English speaking country, when you can speak perfect English is rude.
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Post by Republic on Mar 25, 2008 17:29:22 GMT
I can see the point you are making bilk and I would agree with it to a certain extent. I would disagree about Irish though. I think anyone in Ireland should be entitled to speak Irish without being labelled rude. But I can see how it would annoy people if it was being spoken ONLY in an attempt to antagonise others. Welcome back by the way. I had often wondered where you had gone  |
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Post by Bilk on Mar 25, 2008 19:29:05 GMT
I can see the point you are making bilk and I would agree with it to a certain extent. I would disagree about Irish though. I think anyone in Ireland should be entitled to speak Irish without being labelled rude. But I can see how it would annoy people if it was being spoken ONLY in an attempt to antagonise others. Welcome back by the way. I had often wondered where you had gone Thank you republic for the welcome back. I don't mind like minded people gathering together and speaking in any language they choose, if they so wish. It's when that language is forced upon the rest of us, for instance Gerry Adams making political speechs in Irish when the vast majority of people listening haven't a clue what he is saying. In fact he makes the speech in Irish first then kindly translates it to English for the vast majority of listeners, and that includes his own followers. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 25, 2008 21:07:38 GMT
I've heard it say that Adam's own Irish is not all that fluent in actuality anyway although since I speak a very few words myself I'm in no position to judge. If the language is been valued for been one of the oldest surviving languages in Europe and one of the oldest with a written body of text that used it then that's a good thing. I think perhaps if the ammount that Protestants and some unionists had in helping the language stay alive in some eras was focussed on more then some of the antagonism could be removed.
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Post by bearhunter on Mar 25, 2008 21:53:16 GMT
My mother heard Adams giving an oration at Vinegar Hill in 1998 and said she had to leave because his mangling of the language was so heinous.
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Post by Bilk on Mar 25, 2008 21:53:50 GMT
I've heard it say that Adam's own Irish is not all that fluent in actuality anyway although since I speak a very few words myself I'm in no position to judge. If the language is been valued for been one of the oldest surviving languages in Europe and one of the oldest with a written body of text that used it then that's a good thing. I think perhaps if the ammount that Protestants and some unionists had in helping the language stay alive in some eras was focussed on more then some of the antagonism could be removed. If you make a political speech in Irish that even the majority of your own supporters don't understand, then it can only be solely designed to offend and cause antagonism.. And I agree with you on the issue of helping a language stay alive. But it (the Irish language) should not be used as a political tool. Many unioists too have taken to learning the Irish language, for the very reason you have given, to keep it alive. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 25, 2008 22:10:20 GMT
The first things that drew me to the Irish language and culture as a child were stories and myths that my mum would tell. These lacked any political dimension as she would tend to focus on the stories of Finn and the more sorrowful sort of tales such as Deirdre. It would be said if the well of beautiful stories and legends that the Irish language contains like these was swallowed up as they represent things more important and lasting about humanity than either republicanism or unionism can contain alone.
I think when the Gaelic revival happened the fact that belief and pride in people's heritage occurred was important -but honestly in many ways that was very much a middle class thing and not relevant to my ancestors who would have been ploughmen and smalll farmers or small farmer's wifes. I think the Irish language should be for anyone and the depth of literature created in it and which it influence should be open for all.
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Post by Republic on Mar 25, 2008 22:20:39 GMT
If you make a political speech in Irish that even the majority of your own supporters don't understand, then it can only be solely designed to offend and cause antagonism.. And I agree with you on the issue of helping a language stay alive. But it (the Irish language) should not be used as a political tool. Many unioists too have taken to learning the Irish language, for the very reason you have given, to keep it alive. Thats why I said as long as it isn't designed to antagonise anyone. People who politicise the language are the real enemies of Gaeilge, not English speakers. |
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Post by Wasp on Mar 25, 2008 22:25:17 GMT
Good point republic and there are plenty out there politicising the language as well. But I am not arguing on this thread, it is a chillout thread and I am abiding by the rules. Anyone wanna fight step outside to the other sections. lol
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Post by Jim on Mar 25, 2008 23:42:39 GMT
I find Adam's Irish perfectly understandable, but its not very complex or technical. Thats a good thing, elitism only kills the language and when it starts to become understandable in different forms it shows growth. Only have to look at the hundreds of styles you can speak English in to see what I mean, and thats in England alone!
If someone talks to me in Irish, I will answer them in Irish. It may be rude to talk in a different language to a mate, in a room full of English speakers, but I see it as equally rude to reply to someone in a different language.
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Post by Bilk on Mar 26, 2008 12:06:12 GMT
I find Adam's Irish perfectly understandable, but its not very complex or technical. Thats a good thing, elitism only kills the language and when it starts to become understandable in different forms it shows growth. Only have to look at the hundreds of styles you can speak English in to see what I mean, and thats in England alone! If someone talks to me in Irish, I will answer them in Irish. It may be rude to talk in a different language to a mate, in a room full of English speakers, but I see it as equally rude to reply to someone in a different language. So if a french guy comes up and speaks to you in french, then you must answer in french? Come on jim you'll have to do better than that! My reply to that mate would be "This is neither the time nor the place to be speaking Irish" I don't mind a greeting, that is differerent, it is quite obvious to all listening that it is a greeting. Setanta does it all the time on here, that doesn't bother me. But to have a long winded conversation or to make a speech in a language which, quite clearly, the vast majority of the people present cannot understand, when you can speak perfect English, is downright rude. And I say that of any language, not just Irish. Would you and a mate start a thread on here where few know the language? no I don't think so. |
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Post by Jim on Mar 26, 2008 15:00:19 GMT
Yup. If I spoke french (and I do speak a good deal of french) and a french guy came up to me and started speaking in french, I would reply in french. Its rude not too.
Mate, I speak Irish and English fuently, a bit of French, a bit of German, and a lot of conversational Japanese (took it at university). For anyone else who speaks more than 2 or 3 languages they'll agree with me, its just proper ettitquette to reply in the same language. If they wanted to ask you something in English, they would have done so, there is a reason they asked you in another language.
I probably would eventually just switch over to English if people in the room where annoyed by it or tried to butt into the conversation but I use my language as communication, not something to gloat about or show off or to make a political statement.
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