IRFU and double standards

[Harry]

Just trying to see what the views are regarding the recent Ireland/Italy game at ravenhill recently. I prepare to be corrected by anyone who maybe knows more about the sport than me but i thought the Ireland rugby team actually represent both North and South??? I thought that Ulster players have stood under the tricolor and stood for the soldier song as it was the anthem and flag of their southern counterparts. Why then could this not be returned for the Ulster players when they were playing in Belfast?? Is it not fair that these Ulster players should of been allowed to stand under their own flag and have their own anthem played as we were on our side of the border???

If this could be cleared up for me, is it really a team for both north and south or simply a ROI team that happens to allow Northerners to play??

[Harry]

Again i'm not 100% but i thought Irelands call was played when they were away but when they are on home soil the soldier song is played along with Irelands call. Its a disgrace and discriminates against one side what the IRFU have done. GSTQ is our anthem and the anthem of many of the players who have lined up and served the Irish rugby team well. The decent gesture would of been to treat them like equals and rise above the politics but instead its do as we say but not as we do. I've backed Ireland 100% in rugby but now feel like i've had my eyes open.

[Harry]

Its a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. If we had of kicked up a fuss then we would of been bigots, small minded, living in the past etc etc. We don't do it and it means we don't care, are a minority etc etc. If the Ireland rugby team is truly representative of both countries then it shouldn't of been a problem. Its a case of keeping the majority happy. Jesus were have i heard all this before???

Just a simple question. Do you think we have a point in claiming discrimination??

[Republic]

I would agree with Harrys sentiments here. Its not very fair that Ni's anthem was not played in NI.
Perhaps the solution should be Irelands Call only, and neither anthem should be played. Or else play both.
But its ridiculous that one should be played and the other shouldnt.

Why is Irelands Call a West Brit song setanta? Whats it got to do with britain?
Is ámhran na bhFiann the only song that can represent Ireland? Because you know, it will have to go if we ever get that UI you keep dreaming of.

[Wasp]

Just trying to see what the views are regarding the recent Ireland/Italy game at ravenhill recently. I prepare to be corrected by anyone who maybe knows more about the sport than me but i thought the Ireland rugby team actually represent both North and South???

Correct

I thought that Ulster players have stood under the tricolor and stood for the soldier song as it was the anthem and flag of their southern counterparts.

And they did so showing total respect to the southern players, supporters and all those involved with the Ireland rugby team.

Why then could this not be returned for the Ulster players when they were playing in Belfast?? Is it not fair that these Ulster players should of been allowed to stand under their own flag and have their own anthem played as we were on our side of the border???

This was simply disgusting and another reason why I can't wait for spineless politicans to call at my door looking for votes. The players and I know one personally should have refused to play for Ireland unless the same respect was shown for them. Whether you hate GSTQ or not, the fact remains those who regard it as there anthem stood and respected the soldier song in Dublin both players and supporters alike. The irfu should be challenged at every move to make the anthems inclusive for Unionist supporters/players. If one is played then both is played. Now if sinn fein spoke up for this that would really throw the cat among the pigeons.

If this could be cleared up for me, is it really a team for both north and south or simply a ROI team that happens to allow Northerners to play??

Meant to be for both but obviously not. For some reason the soldier song is not offensive to some but GSTQ is, shows the tolerance towards those form the Unionist community.

[Jim]

harry said:

Just trying to see what the views are regarding the recent Ireland/Italy game at ravenhill recently. I prepare to be corrected by anyone who maybe knows more about the sport than me but i thought the Ireland rugby team actually represent both North and South??? I thought that Ulster players have stood under the tricolor and stood for the soldier song as it was the anthem and flag of their southern counterparts. Why then could this not be returned for the Ulster players when they were playing in Belfast?? Is it not fair that these Ulster players should of been allowed to stand under their own flag and have their own anthem played as we were on our side of the border???

If this could be cleared up for me, is it really a team for both north and south or simply a ROI team that happens to allow Northerners to play??

Northern Ireland doesnt have an official national anthem and its official flag is the union jack.

Also your taking for granted that every northern player are automatically unionist, I dont know if they are or they arent but for some reason I doubt they really care.

They only play amhran na bhfiann when playing in the south, then they play irelands call after it. as far as i knew the anthem of the hosting nation always has its anthem played, if it has an anthem. If they played in France it would be La Marseillaise, Irelands Call, then whatever team they are playings anthem.

[Harry]

GSTQ is my national anthem and i consider myself to be N.Irish. Lets not allow the blatant double standards to be brushed under the carpet with all this about no official anthems, flags nonsense. Fact is this Ireland team most certainly has Unionist players now and has in the past, a good few Ballymena men have worn the green jersey with pride and done a fine job. Ulstermen are expected to line up and listen to the Republics anthem but nobody could return the gesture to them. Setanta is right that we should of kicked up more fuss etc but i'll take this as a massive lesson learned about how life may be in a UI.

They can go jump for a UI. No Surrender.

[Jim]

Harry mate a UI would be independent from Britain anyway so not like you'll hear god save the queen in an official way, unless the Queen pays a diplomatic visit like she does to any other european country. We nationalists dont hear Amhran na bhFiann in anything official on this side of the border so why should that change in a united Ireland with GSTQ? It'll be the same arguement only in reverse, "this is the official anthem". Not nice to hear is it?

I dont see the problem, really, half of the population up here have no interest in hearing God save the Queen, more than 5/6 of the island have no interest in God save the queen, but unionists are always wanting that veto, Irelands call was made to go past the anthem issue specifically up here because its such a touchy issue. we are a divided society right to the back bone. Playing Amhran na bhFiann in the south isnt a touchy issue at all, the south isnt a divided society, it is one society, one community.

Britain is a union, I think the real problem is that Northern Ireland doesnt have an anthem of its own and God save the Queen is really an English anthem, the Scottish dont like it either and the Welsh arent too fond of it, only the English like it and even then loads of people prefer Jerusalem.

If Northern Ireland had a good anthem of its own instead of being sub servant to England time and time again then we wouldnt have this shite to deal with

[Harry]

Jim what veto, what demands. I'm simply asking is it fair that people have to stand for one anthem while in the south but don't get the same respect when they are in the north. I'm not asking Ireland to play the queen all the time, it would of been a symbolic getsure to the northern players who have always been respectful to the soldier song if they were actually treated like equals. They were in the north and as such should of played the anthem of the northern players, they didn't. They have shown exactly what the priorties are how far this equal rights lark actually goes. Christ the hypocrisy reeks from some of you.

[bearhunter]

Harry, not trying to be smart or anything here, but as you are clearly quite passionate about this (and so you should be, after all, the IRFU classing the Ravenhill match as an away fixture to avoid playing GSTQ is just retarded) but why wait so long before posting about it. I was fully expecting this to be a major argument by Monday at the latest.

[Jim]

harry said:

Jim what veto, what demands. I'm simply asking is it fair that people have to stand for one anthem while in the south but don't get the same respect when they are in the north. I'm not asking Ireland to play the queen all the time, it would of been a symbolic getsure to the northern players who have always been respectful to the soldier song if they were actually treated like equals. They were in the north and as such should of played the anthem of the northern players, they didn't. They have shown exactly what the priorties are how far this equal rights lark actually goes. Christ the hypocrisy reeks from some of you.

I generally agree with that and it should have been played, but your talking about northern players and fans as if they'd all stand up to god save the queen willingly. We arent like southerners where we're all united behind one anthem, that was the point of Irelands call, to do away with a political national anthem to a patriotic one because we've been shooting each other over it for 40 years.

Ireland are a brilliant rugby team, one team for all of Ireland has been a huge success and I dont think something trivial like a national anthem should ruin it. I dont care of they played Amhran na bhFiann up and down the border or didnt play it at all, sport is sport, Irelands call suits me for all situations in national sport.

[An Fear Dubh]

I do see Harry's point, and wondered how the IRFU were going to get around, they classed it as an 'away' match. As Jim said there were other considerations for the IRFU. And an emotive issue of having the Irish team stand to the British anthem, might have created an issue that could have snowballed out of control. Remember the IRFU want to continue to use Croke Park and lacking the guts to make a political point, they took the easy option.

[Harry]

jim said:

harry said:

Jim what veto, what demands. I'm simply asking is it fair that people have to stand for one anthem while in the south but don't get the same respect when they are in the north. I'm not asking Ireland to play the queen all the time, it would of been a symbolic getsure to the northern players who have always been respectful to the soldier song if they were actually treated like equals. They were in the north and as such should of played the anthem of the northern players, they didn't. They have shown exactly what the priorties are how far this equal rights lark actually goes. Christ the hypocrisy reeks from some of you.

I generally agree with that and it should have been played, but your talking about northern players and fans as if they'd all stand up to god save the queen willingly. We arent like southerners where we're all united behind one anthem, that was the point of Irelands call, to do away with a political national anthem to a patriotic one because we've been shooting each other over it for 40 years.

Ireland are a brilliant rugby team, one team for all of Ireland has been a huge success and I dont think something trivial like a national anthem should ruin it. I dont care of they played Amhran na bhFiann up and down the border or didnt play it at all, sport is sport, Irelands call suits me for all situations in national sport.

I'm not seeking to ruin it either but think its a little off to say the least. I accept northern society is divided on issues like anthems etc but my view is that the tricolor flys and the soldier song is played when in Dublin and i expect this would be representation of one half of the north so it would of been appropriate to show some representation of the other half by playing the Queen when in Belfast???

[Harry]

setanta said:

Harry we all see your point, BUT, it seems that very few people in Unionism see that blatent double standard as a problem to worry about.
And you can't expect us to accept that there was no protest because Loyalism didn't want to look or be labelled bigotted or attached to the past.

I can't speak for anyone but my guess is most Loyalists etc already viewed the Ireland rugby team as a foreign team anyway so they wouldn't of been surprised or bothered by the actions taken. I know most of my mates wouldn't support the Ireland rugby team but i always did simply for the Ulster players and i saw past the soldier song and the tricolors etc as i just thouight well its for the ROI people and they have the right as its their team also.

[Harry]

Regardless, its a complete farce and i will no longer see Ireland rugby team as my own.