irish president starts another row

[Wasp]

Belfast Telegraph
Irish President starts another row over Queen visiting Dublin Thursday, March 20, 2008

Irish President Mary McAleese was at the centre of another political storm last night - sparked by comments she made about a potential visit to the Republic by the Queen.

The Queen inadvertently walked into the latest row sparked by remarks from Mrs McAleese, who was forced to cancel a trip to Belfast four years ago even though she apologised for suggesting children in the province had been taught to hate Catholics in the same way Nazis learned to despise Jews.

Though the two heads of state appear to have made significant progress towards a Dublin visit - which would be the first by a reigning British monarch since partition in 1921 - Mrs McAleese said yesterday it could not happen until devolution is complete.

And she made clear that she meant when the devolution of policing and justice responsibilities takes place.

"I think the day is significantly closer," said Mrs McAleese after meeting the Queen.

"We know that it is dependent on the completion of devolution, which hopefully will not be too far away. That means the return of policing and criminal justice responsibility to the Executive in Northern Ireland.

"We had hoped that would be May. Now we are not entirely sure what the time scale is. We hope it will keep closely to the timetable. When that is done, when devolution is completed, I think then anything is possible."

Mrs McAleese said she thought it unlikely that a visit would take place this year, but she hoped one could take place "sooner rather than later."

Outraged unionists last night slammed the President's statement and warned it would prove counterproductive for the policing and justice hand-over.

Ulster Unionist leader Sir Reg Empey said he was angered by the statement which he said would be interpreted as pressuring unionists over policing and justice, which had been the "most sensitive issue" over the past 30 years.

And the DUP's Stephen Moutray said it seemed almost every statement by Mrs McAleese actively sought "to antagonise the unionist population."

On the issue of the Queen visiting Dublin, however, Mrs McAleese three years ago revealed the British and Irish Governments were agreed it should take place and that the timing would be for them to decide.

But speaking after a Cooperation North venture in London with the Queen, she also said it would be depended on the "successful development" of the political process in Northern Ireland "over time."

Mrs McAleese, who is expected to be present again today at the first Royal Maundy Thursday money to be distributed in Northern Ireland, is known to be in regular contact with UDA chief Jackie McDonald, who has played golf with her husband, and to have supported several loyalist projects.

But Mr Empey last night argued: "I cannot fathom what this is designed to achieve and why there is all this pressure over this issue, which is even being linked into the economic conference in May. It is only likely to prove counter-productive."

There was no immediate SDLP reaction but Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness warned: "...if we can't reach agreement, we are going to be in big trouble."

[Wasp]

Ah the old windbag putting preconditions on a visit by the head of a state that Ireland is meant to have warm and friendly relations with. I thought reaching out by the Irish gov which IMO they have done etc would make this visit an non issue, obviously McAleese thinks different. Arsehole

[earl]

Yes WASP, Swallow the lies that the BT spreads. I seen the President talking about this last night on the news. They had the full interview on it, and I can tell you that she's been mis-quoted.

She had stated that the idea of a Queens Dublin visit would be the icing on the cake for devolution, and that the governments were the ones who had really come to this decision about the queen's visit.

the president does as she's told by the government. That's just common sense. Mary has little input in this decision. T

And the DUP's Stephen Moutray said it seemed almost every statement by Mrs McAleese actively sought "to antagonise the unionist population."

Looks like unionists winding themselves up again to me. Do Unionists not understand that the decision of when the queen visits is not even a decision the queen can make, nevermind the president! The governments decide when she visits, and all Mary can do is repeat what she's been told. Some common sense please!!

[Wasp]

So the Irish gov. then don't want the Queen to visit unless the preconditions have been met? So they have been lying about wanting to accomodate Unionists and showing them that they will not be alienated and neglected etc etc.

Someone tell the DUP please.

[Jim]

Oh, god forbid we can run our own police.

Unionists are again going out of their way to be antagonised.

[Wasp]

Not so Jim, unionists didn't ask mary the muppet to say what she did.

[Blue Angel]

And I'm hardline enough to want no British royals in Ireland until unification - they are for me the head of state of a foreign occupying power and have no place visiting Ireland at this point. I have no welcome for them at this point in time. My mother refused to accept an invitation to meeting her when I was young connected with her work as a nurse with terminally ill patients which I was suprised by as my mother was the least political of the family but then again her father was a very hard-line republican and some of it must have rubbed of.

When Ireland is united I'm quite happy to welcome them just as much as any other foreign head of state although were such a scenario to occur I'd be indifferent to it. The British royal family have neither my hate or love but rather I feel profoundly uninterested in them on the whole.

[Wasp]

And I'm hardline enough to want no British royals in Ireland until unification - they are for me the head of state of a foreign occupying power and have no place visiting Ireland at this point. I have no welcome for them at this point in time.

We could say the same about Mary the muppet coming up here now couldn't we. Imagine someone like yourself born and bred in England, living in the country's capital where Her Majesty mostly resides and you are against her going to visit Ireland unless she meets your preconditions. What a joke. Bet you would welcome any Irish leader to London though.

When Ireland is united I'm quite happy to welcome them just as much as any other foreign head of state although were such a scenario to occur I'd be indifferent to it. The British royal family have neither my hate or love but rather I feel profoundly uninterested in them on the whole.

Why worry about them then if they go to a country that you don't even live in or were born in. Apart from that the majority of republicans are signed upto and in support of the British prescence in N.I, even supporting the crown forces etc. Ah get off your soapbox and stand by your prncipals by moving to Ireland and making a stand with your fellow Irishmen, although technically you are an Englishman.

Honestly BA your rants are getting more and more bitter and twisted as you go along.

[earl]

wasp said:

So the Irish gov. then don't want the Queen to visit unless the preconditions have been met? So they have been lying about wanting to accomodate Unionists and showing them that they will not be alienated and neglected etc etc.

Someone tell the DUP please.

You see, Unionists have added the word 'precondition'. The Irish government and Mary never used that word. They have also clearly stated their position on a royal visit, and they have never used the words 'don't want the Queen to visit'. The President has been working very hard towards bringing the possibility of a visit closer to reality, and there's nothing she's ever said or done to prove otherwise. This whole topic is just unionists creaming themselves over a misinterpretation. Whether this misinterpretation was deliberate or not is another matter.
If this was a precondition, it is the lamest, most ineffectual precondition of all time that doesn't make any logical sense. Any matters of a royal visit would have the full support of the British government. So who the hell is this 'precondition' for?

[Blue Angel]

You see WASP I don't get how my view on this subject makes me twisted or bitter. It is merely my view is all. You seem to take my view on this as some indication i hate the British. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is merely a differing point of view than your own on the subject. For you the British monarchy represents someone you pledge allegiance to, for me they are someone I am indifferent to. In the future should a state visit occur I might disagree with it but my only recourse would be protest such as is allowed by law. In the event of an united Ireland should the British monarch visit then to me they would be another head of state visiting - no more or no less and should be afforded the same ammount of respect and privilege as any other head of state - no more or no less.

Like Setanta i think the monarchy is a pointless and out of date institution but that is for the British to decide as she is the British head of state ultimately.

[Wasp]

You see WASP I don't get how my view on this subject makes me twisted or bitter. It is merely my view is all. You seem to take my view on this as some indication i hate the British. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is merely a differing point of view than your own on the subject.

I understand differing opinions etc but you are anti-British if your posts are anything to go by.

For you the British monarchy represents someone you pledge allegiance to, for me they are someone I am indifferent to.

I have no problem with that either, no problem at all.

In the future should a state visit occur I might disagree with it but my only recourse would be protest such as is allowed by law. In the event of an united Ireland should the British monarch visit then to me they would be another head of state visiting - no more or no less and should be afforded the same ammount of respect and privilege as any other head of state - no more or no less.

This is my problem, you can live in the capital of England, work in the capital of England, enjoy the benefits such as healt, housing and education etc yet you cannot agree to having Her Majsety who lives their visit a country that you do not even live in but have relatives etc living there. She is a figure head and a great ambassador for Britain so why should you or anyone like you protest about her visit because she is the figure head of the UK? Especailly when you enjoy the benefits of the same country that this same figurehead represents. Highly laughable and hypocritical. But you would have no problem with an Irish leader visiting London, just shows the depth of selfishness and backward thinking here.

Like Setanta i think the monarchy is a pointless and out of date institution but that is for the British to decide as she is the British head of state ultimately.

Sounds like you would stop her would be visit to acountry that is meant ot have strong friendly ties with the republic, a country that is doing its part in finding a solution to N.I, a country that welcomes Irish leaders and the Irish president, but you don't want to return the same.

If I was born and bred in Dublin it would be highly offensive, selfish and backward for me to be against the Irish president visiting England. It just shows how backward, bigoted and selfish republican thinking really can be.

[Jim]

Hold on a minute here, he lives and works in London, he also pays his tax (i hope so anyway!) to that country and contributes to the society. He has every right to not want the Queen as the head of state, thats his opinion and thats his choice. Would you tell an anti-monarchist Englishman that he doesnt have the same right to disagree with the Queen?

Maybe you're a bit out of touch with the rest of Britain, Wasp, but there is a considerable anti-monarch feeling here, even in the houses of parliament, who want to see a Republic and not a Kingdom.

Weither or not she is a good representative for the UK (I think she does a good job), some people want a head of state that is politically involved, along with an elected upper chamber and reforms to the entire commons.

By "republican thinking" I hope you're not just talking about Irish Republicans, but British Republicans too!! Republicans are exactly that, wanting a republic.

Also its rich being called selfish and hate filled or whatever else you said, when you refer to the president of Ireland as "mary the muppet" and post up an article of unionists getting offended at things English people fob off.

[Wasp]

Hold on a minute here, he lives and works in London, he also pays his tax (i hope so anyway!) to that country and contributes to the society. He has every right to not want the Queen as the head of state, thats his opinion and thats his choice. Would you tell an anti-monarchist Englishman that he doesnt have the same right to disagree with the Queen?

Jim you have totally and utterly misquoted me, not once did I say what you are saying or claiming I said. Re-read my posts and you will see the only thing I have a problem with.

Weither or not she is a good representative for the UK (I think she does a good job), some people want a head of state that is politically involved, along with an elected upper chamber and reforms to the entire commons.

By "republican thinking" I hope you're not just talking about Irish Republicans, but British Republicans too!! Republicans are exactly that, wanting a republic.

Also its rich being called selfish and hate filled or whatever else you said, when you refer to the president of Ireland as "mary the muppet" and post up an article of unionists getting offended at things English people fob off.

Jim there is a big difference between calling HER a muppet because of what she said and not wanting her to visit this country or England for example. Big big difference.

She IMO is a muppet and a twat but that does not give me the right to protest against her visiting here no matter what idiotic comments she makes.

Show me anywhere that I said people have to like the Royals and to want them? Again if hou read my posts you will see I have no problem to BA not wanting a monarchy as he is a republican, none at all. That was far from my point and the points I was making.

In all honesty Jim did you not read my posts or did you see one line and reacted to it???

[Jim]

You talked about him recieving the benefits of the state, I talked about him contributing to the state, simple-as.

What would you say if I called Lizzie a muppet? You would be angry about it, you would see it as being disrespectful. I've a fair bit of respect for the Queen TBH but since I'm technically a British citizen and I pay taxes to the British state and will be paying nearly £20,000 to the British state for the privilege of an education I have my political opinions and would also like to have a more involved head of state and turn Britain into a Republic, maybe even a co-head of state, part monarch part republic.

I read your post well, you said:
"This is my problem, you can live in the capital of England, work in the capital of England, enjoy the benefits such as healt, housing and education etc yet you cannot agree to having Her Majsety who lives their visit a country that you do not even live in but have relatives etc living there."

He can live work in the capital and recieve its benefits but he cant agree with having the head of state (taking for granted its HIS head of state) visiting the country he identifies with more. Lets consider one thing Wasp, the British monarch was at the head of the occupation of Ireland for centuries. Even if you agree with it, after all you and your community are the product of that occupation, and even I probably am, too, but you surely see why people are against it or don't feel that its time yet. Why rush it? IF the Queen is to visit it will be one of the most symbolic things to happen ever since the Union Jack was lowered from Dublin castle, it has to be done at the perfect time and not a second sooner or later. Labour agree with that, Fianna Fail agree with that, the Irish PM agrees with that, the northern parties agree with that, and most likely the Queen agrees with that, being non-political, she wouldnt want to kick up a political argument. That is her role, if she was a President, or a political figure, it would not be her role.

[Wasp]

Then surely Jim from that logic Ahern and Maryy shouldn't visit the north or any other part of the UK.

TBH I wouldn't be offended in the slightest at you calling Lizzie a muppet or anything else, I am simply peeved at the blatant hypocricy shown and proved by republicans here.