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Post by Jim on Apr 26, 2009 12:39:07 GMT
I'd say the majority of English people would be in favour of letting the ghurkas stay.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 26, 2009 16:08:03 GMT
I'd say the majority of English people would be in favour of letting the ghurkas stay. Without doubt Jim and to think this government is treating these brave soldiers who have served Britain with dedication and loyalty makes it totally sickening and outrageous. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 26, 2009 16:38:47 GMT
Definitely. The Government havent got it right at all, they're probably the only group of foreign born that the English would gladly have stay.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 26, 2009 21:55:25 GMT
I see where she is coming from. About 10 or so years ago my mate moved to London after finishing uni and shared a house with another lad from Sheffield who was Asian. Before I go on sadly this fella died about a month after I first met him from what was believed to be adult cot death., so anything I say to do with him is not because he is dead incase anyone thinks I am only saying it because we dont speak ill of the dead.
Anyway when I first met him he was a really nice bloke, very friendly and out going but a bit too hyper with drink in him, not in an aggressive way just a drunken foolish way like climbing lamposts and that type of thing. HE joked about his own community and slagged them off in the sameway we would joke about our own communities which I believe helped us deal with the troubles. During my stay with them his parents phoned quite a few times but he only answered the phone once or twice. His reason was that all he got was grief.
He explained that even after a year they still get at him for sharing a house with a white English boy (even though my mate is from here) and how he will lose his job etc because he hung with the wrong crowd. I found this very strange because my mate is a sensible guy who at that time was in a stable relationship and wasnt one for going out partying all the time or having parties in their flat., my mate was by far the most sensible of the 2. He would have joked and said things like I cant wait to get a white English girl pregnant to see the look on my parents faces. He and my mate had a few Asian friend swho also broke the mould but by far most of their mates were white and black.
HE made it plain his parents nearly had a heart attack when they heard he was sharing a house with a white person, he made it plain he was fed up being lctured about what friends he should have and how he should stick with his own because if he didnt he would end up in jail etc.
After he died his parents strangely enough told my mate that he was a true friend to their son and they thanked him for looking after him while they lived together. Funny how a death can make people see past their bigotry or false opinions.
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Post by Jim on Apr 27, 2009 11:24:05 GMT
I see where she is coming from. About 10 or so years ago my mate moved to London after finishing uni and shared a house with another lad from Sheffield who was Asian. Before I go on sadly this fella died about a month after I first met him from what was believed to be adult cot death., so anything I say to do with him is not because he is dead incase anyone thinks I am only saying it because we dont speak ill of the dead. Anyway when I first met him he was a really nice bloke, very friendly and out going but a bit too hyper with drink in him, not in an aggressive way just a drunken foolish way like climbing lamposts and that type of thing. HE joked about his own community and slagged them off in the sameway we would joke about our own communities which I believe helped us deal with the troubles. During my stay with them his parents phoned quite a few times but he only answered the phone once or twice. His reason was that all he got was grief. He explained that even after a year they still get at him for sharing a house with a white English boy (even though my mate is from here) and how he will lose his job etc because he hung with the wrong crowd. I found this very strange because my mate is a sensible guy who at that time was in a stable relationship and wasnt one for going out partying all the time or having parties in their flat., my mate was by far the most sensible of the 2. He would have joked and said things like I cant wait to get a white English girl pregnant to see the look on my parents faces. He and my mate had a few Asian friend swho also broke the mould but by far most of their mates were white and black. HE made it plain his parents nearly had a heart attack when they heard he was sharing a house with a white person, he made it plain he was fed up being lctured about what friends he should have and how he should stick with his own because if he didnt he would end up in jail etc. After he died his parents strangely enough told my mate that he was a true friend to their son and they thanked him for looking after him while they lived together. Funny how a death can make people see past their bigotry or false opinions. Well said mate, a lot of Asian youths are rebelling against their parents by going out, getting plastered, starting to smoke, hang around with white and black people, and just become westernised. Its similar to the white youth in the 70s that started hanging around blacks in england, and in NI mixing of taigs and huns (  ), my mam was a teenager in the 70s and hang around with punks and said she knew as many protestants as she did her own, and just considered them the same as her. I cant say what it was like because I was born in the mid 80s but my favourite band is Stiff Little Fingers and yer man Jake Burns has said the exact same thing in interviews and in person, and wrote about it in his music, I got lectured on it every bleedin' day which is why I'd consider myself a fairly progressive Republican compared to other people I know, I'm not alien to or afraid of the other culture.  Not anymore anyway. The older Asian generation want to stick to their traditions right down to wearing sandals in the worst Manchester weather, as I speak right now its pissing down and looks like the middle of December. They see their youth mixing and becoming part of British identity which is far removed from what it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s (and what Unionists think it is ) when a lot of them moved here from the old empire and they don't like British society in general, the message they get from English people is "Go home if you don't like it, but if you accept us we'll accept you". The BNP go a lot further and shorten that to "Go home or we'll send you home", and they have little realistic support. A lot of people may agree with certain thigns the BNP say but know better not to elect that shower of shite because they havent a clue. English nationalism is accepting of other cultures that helped build their empire, if they are accepting of their culture, extreme English nationalism is accepting of nothing but their own culture, they dont even like the Scots or the Irish and would shove us out and the Scottish out of the union very quickly. The BNP themselves are unionist as long as England is dominant, it has little support in Scotland Wales or NI, I looked at their leaked member list and there was no more than 20 or so members in NI, very few in Scotland, the vast majority were from places like Bradford, Bolton, Birmingham and London where they are up to their necks in foreign culture. |
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Post by earl on Apr 27, 2009 13:29:14 GMT
I am sure the Maguire family did not feel isolated when the bombs went off in Guildford. They were not involved and felt confident that their lives would continue unchanged. But once arrested why did the police think they could railroad this family into long prison sentences? It is my belief that English public opinion wanted people arrested and convicted. And the suspicion fell heavily on anyone Irish or of Irish origins. The Maguire family fitted the role and were easily railroaded, and English public opinion was satisfied and the pressure was off the police. But how if there was no difference between Irish and English did the suspicion only fall on the Irish? I'm sorry AFD, but I don't see how the Maguire family were treated back then has anything to do with how an Irish person is treated in England now. The difference in attitude over the last 20 years has been very positive and I don't believe this example is relevant anymore. |
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Post by collina on Apr 27, 2009 23:09:23 GMT
Really WASP, I expected better. Since when did soil have nationality? Did the soil express its will to be British in some democratic vote? Did the nationalist soil abstain? This Fatherland/Motherland rubbish is part of what causes conflict and some of the four-green-fielders are just as bad. If you believe the Book of Genesis, God created the earth and left it politically neutral. Soil does not have ethnicity or nationality and if does, then British themselves are the greatest and most extensive tramplers of other people's soil. Trouble is some of the natives followed the boats home from one lot of British Soil to another lot of British soil. Seems entirely consistent tome. |
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Post by earl on Apr 28, 2009 9:00:31 GMT
Collina, we've stopped that little tangent on soil nationality and technical definitions a page back so as not to go down the same roads again. WASP and Setanta have kindly backed down from that argument so let's keep this thread on track.
I was watching Sky news this morning and people were emailing in their opinions on the Gurka situation. The vast majority are disgusted at their treatment.
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Post by collina on Apr 28, 2009 9:26:17 GMT
Collina, we've stopped that little tangent on soil nationality and technical definitions a page back so as not to go down the same roads again. WASP and Setanta have kindly backed down from that argument so let's keep this thread on track. I was watching Sky news this morning and people were emailing in their opinions on the Gurka situation. The vast majority are disgusted at their treatment. Sorry, I skimmed the thread a bit. By the way, isn't narrow nationalism the conduit of all intolerance? Whether it be the British or Irish strain, the virus does the same thing. Its interesting that the one policy that British Nationalism and Irish Nationalism share is their aversion to the EU. I wonder why Sinn Fein is the only Irish Party with no non-national candidates. I'm not suggesting in any way that SF have a green-only policy, but nevertheless its indicative of the trend towards nationalism on both these Islands. To be honest, I think the Gurka situation is a case of gross ingratitude. Sons of the Somme should be alarmed. |
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Post by earl on Apr 28, 2009 9:54:17 GMT
isn't narrow nationalism the conduit of all intolerance? Whether it be the British or Irish strain, the virus does the same thing. I would fully agree with you here. Narrow nationalism is a big problem in both our countries. This form of nationalism would have come from different backgrounds in each. In Ireland, it grew from trying to forge a new identity from idealised ancient Celtic tradition and identity, opposition to anything British, the RC church influence and Dev. In Britain it would have come from their prosperity and empire where you had people from all across the empire emigrating to England to better their opportunities, while the locals were fed on the twisted idea's held by the Victorian era of providence, divine right, class and eugenics. I'm not too sure about that. I know of many who would be both proud of their Irish and European heritage. There is a more pro-EU mindset in Ireland which is not totally at odds with national identity. The sons of the Somme know exactly what their blood is worth. Recently, it's valued at less than a U.S. citizens blood. www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/ira-victims-lose-out-in-us-deal-on-libya-13927367.html |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 29, 2009 16:06:56 GMT
Collina I could react to your post but I would rather not rise to it. The only thing you could pick out was 1 line by me and it is that line you concentrated on because you just cant handle such things being said by the like of me. Now there has been plenty of good posts here concerning this thread but sadly a few seem to rather go off on a tangent.
Could we not do as Earl has sugeested, its not easy for me because of the type of person I am to bite my lip and not rise to the bait.
Anyway Earl in particular if the part of the republic that you lived in faced the issues that Jim and I have talked about and you felt alien in the place you were brought up in etc, what would your feelings be??
I know its not easy trying to imagine what it would be like unless you actually have to live with it.
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Post by collina on Apr 29, 2009 18:53:12 GMT
Collina I could react to your post but I would rather not rise to it. The only thing you could pick out was 1 line by me and it is that line you concentrated on because you just cant handle such things being said by the like of me. Now there has been plenty of good posts here concerning this thread but sadly a few seem to rather go off on a tangent. Could we not do as Earl has sugeested, its not easy for me because of the type of person I am to bite my lip and not rise to the bait. Anyway Earl in particular if the part of the republic that you lived in faced the issues that Jim and I have talked about and you felt alien in the place you were brought up in etc, what would your feelings be?? I know its not easy trying to imagine what it would be like unless you actually have to live with it. WASP, I feel alien in this country all the time. You should check our society sometime. Our bankers, solicitors, politicians, clergy and developers are completely corrupt. The point I was trying to make was the absurdity of ascribing nationality to a piece of land, when the people entrusted with leading the nation refuse to govern honestly, tolerate corruption amongst the professional classes and land ordinary citizens with the bill to clean up the mess. Ulster may be on British soil, or Irish soil, or moon-dust; it doesn't matter. It doesn't belong to the WASPs or Jims of this world, it belongs to the CEOs who run Bank of Scotland and Northern Rock. You and your fellow taxpayers are going to pick up a tab for greedy bankers that will make the cost of keeping a few million immigrants look like a bob-a-job. It will be probably worse for us. Our concept of a nationhood now goes under the euphemism "sharing the pain". I'm waiting for the first suggestion that black faces should share a little more pain than white faces, or else feck off home. You think that Ulsters problems can't be replicated in Dublin and Gort? Wait and watch what happens over the next decade. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 29, 2009 21:21:26 GMT
Fair enough Collina but as I said I do not want to get into a tangent over what someone said or what someone meant.
Let's just stick to the topic in hand.
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Post by earl on Apr 30, 2009 10:18:54 GMT
Anyway Earl in particular if the part of the republic that you lived in faced the issues that Jim and I have talked about and you felt alien in the place you were brought up in etc, what would your feelings be?? My family had no roots in the parish I grew up in. Back in the day, we were seen as 'blow ins'. I was the oldest in the family, so I started school first. The amount of abuse I got from other kids just because my family didn't originally come from the area was astonishing. I was constantly told to 'go back home', even though I was born and grew up in the area. So I know exactly what it's like to feel alien in the place you grew up in, except my experience is closer to the 'blow ins' than to the natives. Alienation works two ways. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 30, 2009 11:33:22 GMT
My concern isnt who is native and who isnt, I'm not from England either. Not quite a foreigner, but not quite one of them.
My concern is the reluctance to accept other cultures or way of lives other than your own in a country you are foreign to. The newer generations are beginning to accept it, but are held back by the older generation.
Its slightly different in Ireland, any part, regarding immigration. Polish arent there for the long term, they do some work then go home where they want to be. Last year when I went home for a bit I lost my "guaranteed" job because they employed a lot of African bible students and couldnt give me any hours, even though the year before I was putting in up to 70 hours a week for them and they knew I could get the job done, I wasnt happy, but it was temporary and I went back to England, if thats the future in Ireland I may never go back for the long term.
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), my mam was a teenager in the 70s and hang around with punks and said she knew as many protestants as she did her own, and just considered them the same as her. I cant say what it was like because I was born in the mid 80s but my favourite band is Stiff Little Fingers and yer man Jake Burns has said the exact same thing in interviews and in person, and wrote about it in his music, I got lectured on it every bleedin' day which is why I'd consider myself a fairly progressive Republican compared to other people I know, I'm not alien to or afraid of the other culture. 
Not anymore anyway. 