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Post by earl on Apr 17, 2009 12:05:10 GMT
It's when hard times come that we often see the best and worst of our characters. One thing that is common on each side of the border is the rise in racism. Here's a story about the latest attack: examiner.ie/breaking/ireland/eyauqlauqlau/Now I'm not pointing fingers, as this issue is beyond the traditional divide. I've heard about ex-Loyalists starting up anti-racism campaigns, and getting funding to do so: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/loyalists-get-funds-to-oppose-the-racists-1666395.htmlWhilst things are not as overt as this in the south, there are tensions simmering below the surface. I've definitely heard a lot more racist comments when out and about, and have seen a dramatic rise in racist graffiti. I was particularly shocked to see such graffiti in my home town, which never even had graffiti before, nevermind of the racist persuasion. Graffiti consists of swastikas down south, Combat 18 up north. www.flickr.com/photos/23386031@N00/3424702188/I'm just wonder what anyone else might have observed in relation to this subject, and if anyone else is as worried as I am. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 17, 2009 22:45:50 GMT
For starters any form of attack or threat or verbal abuse against anyone because of the colour of their skin, their religion or their country of origin is absolutely disgusting and I condemn every single part of that abuse.
However we have to face facts, in the UK there has been a near open door policy with people flooding the country which is a heavy burden on finances due to benefits etc. While I have no doubt many who come here help the economy and have much to oofer unfortunately many don't. They are here to milk the system because they cannot get the same lifestyle elsewhere, many countires have much more room yet have stricter immigration policies. Amongst these immigrants are extremists who complain about our way of life, our laws, march our streets in support of extremists in their home country etc. All this feeds racists here who are against immigrants, and their reaction helps feed the propaganda of immigrant extremists where bothsides gain support because of the othersides reactions and conditions.
Immigration needs to have stricter controls which include rewriting some of the rules especially at a time of recession where peoples frustration will boil over when they cant get a job yet people who have just come here can. No country can withstand an ever straming influx of immigrants and common sense needs to prevail to save the country from erupting into racial violence.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 18, 2009 22:19:22 GMT
I am not sure where you are getting your 'facts' from Wasp. Could you provide some links. As I am not sure what you mean by 'near open door policy'. If you mean that due to British colonialism in various parts of the World, we have seen 'British Nationals' (those who possess a British Passport) coming to live in England. Or do you just mean Europeans who are from European Union countries. Or are you talking of those outside of this who are invited in by the British government to fill specialist jobs. Or are you referring to 'foreign' students who must be economically dependent. Or are you talking about others outside of these mentioned. As any reports or studies I have seen do not support the notion that the 'foreign immigrants' that come here are not here to 'milk the system' in fact they usually contribute greater financially than those who are 'native' and live around them.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 19, 2009 1:19:14 GMT
I am talking about the infklux of immigrants in particular illegal immigrants, I am including the Polish, latvians and Turkish etc in this as well. I thought that was obvious.
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Post by Blue Angel on Apr 19, 2009 12:30:13 GMT
Then you are mixing and matching 'facts' which don't gel together. The Poles and Latvians are here legally as they are members of EU states. Now it might be that you are no fan of the EU, but the fact is the UK is a member of it and citizens of EU states are not 'illegal.' The fact is Britain is not been overwhelmed by a tidal flood of immigrants but it makes for nice scapegoat headlines and throws a nice red herring into the political arena for politicans to squabble over.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 19, 2009 15:16:14 GMT
BA, AFD and everyone else including myself, what right do we have to judge those affected by mass immigration when we are hardly effected by it. Try living in places like Hyde or Bradford for example and see how British people are being treated, where they cannot get emplyoment because of immigrants, where they cannot get housing because of immigrants etc and then there is the cost to the taxpayers.
On the otherside of the coin what about those immigrants who have adapted to the British way of life such as the post-office worker who refused to serve immigrants if they didn't speak English, it is people like this guy who because of extremists amongst immigrants could easily be a target for racists? Mass immigration has been going on for years and Britian needs to sort the mess out before it gets worse. Only a fool would want this to continue and those who do are as bad in their thinkin as the likes of the bnp.
As I already have said many people have come here and contributed to Britain and many of them class themselves as British but there are many who come here to live off our benefit system, to complain about anything British, to support extremist terrorist groups, support those who have attacked the UK in suicide bombings etc and it is these type of people who need to be dealt with.
And your comment BA about Britain not being overwhelmed by immigrants is totall naive and stupid.
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Post by earl on Apr 20, 2009 11:28:31 GMT
I think it's very important to make the distinction between immigrants and EU-member state citizens. You can lobby for stricter immigration controls and whatever else, but unless your country leaves the EU, you have no choice about other EU citizens living and working in your country, considering you have that same right to go to theirs.
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Post by Harry on Apr 20, 2009 14:20:24 GMT
I was home recently and the general feeling if i'm honest was that outsiders weren't really welcomed. Lots of feelings of how the poles are taking over etc etc. Its an over reaction and isn't right but i would bet my life in most of the working class areas across all of NI the feelings would be the same.
Its not manifested itself into outright racism just yet but the undertones are there. I think its just mistrust and a fear of the unknown or something along them lines. I do know of a number of homes being attacked around Ballymena simply because the occupants were EU nationals from outside the UK and Ireland.
Where do i stand. If i'm honest i don't particularly like the rate at which EU nationals have flooded our areas. I know they have a right but it seems we just opened the door and allowed too much too soon. Am i racist because i feel uneasy when i hear nothing but foreign accents when i'm at the supermarket?? Am i racist because i pray that my neighbours don't move and that foreigners move in next door?? I must be because it sounds racist to me. However that is the way i feel. I would never ever attack a home or attack someone or even support it but i'm uncomfortable with it all.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 20, 2009 14:32:45 GMT
I think it's very important to make the distinction between immigrants and EU-member state citizens. You can lobby for stricter immigration controls and whatever else, but unless your country leaves the EU, you have no choice about other EU citizens living and working in your country, considering you have that same right to go to theirs. I know Earl but I feel the EU must act or at least be pursuaded to act. Its great when people come here to live and work, its great when they adapt to our country and become very much part of it. The problem lies with the numbers who are coming and those who come to protest about our country yet claim every benefit they can. Lets not forget the racism that exixts between the immigrants that come here, many Latvians cant stand the Polish and vice versa so it is not just British or Irish verses some immigrants. |
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Post by earl on Apr 20, 2009 15:55:57 GMT
I've never been scared or felt threatened in my own country by an immigrant. I'd take an immigrant moving in next door over a dirty scoob (chav) any day. I lived most of my childhood back at home with a Dutch family next door and I never felt at risk.
Harry,
I've no idea why strange accents make you uneasy. In these modern times you must surely have been exposed to different accent's and cultures on TV at least. I felt pride when I heard a load of strange accents and tongues for the first time on a Dublin bus. Pride that our country was finally doing well enough that people actually wanted to come here to work. I've never felt uneasy. I've never been robbed or abused by an immigrant. But I have from my own countrymen. Statistically, you are more likely to get fcuked over by one of your own than an immigrant.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 20, 2009 21:09:24 GMT
Nor have I, also I am very friendly with several immigrants, but I have felt trheatened by immigrants and or those who were born here but identify with a different culture.
I know you have addressed this to Harry but my take of it was that Harry wasn't meaning just a single family or person, I think he was referring to things if it was getting like in some places in England.
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Post by earl on Apr 21, 2009 9:19:46 GMT
Well that's approaching 50% of the total population of NI at this stage WASP.
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Post by Harry on Apr 21, 2009 16:17:44 GMT
I meant to say languages and not accents. I walk up the main street where i live and there must be 5 or 6 Eastern European shops. If they spoke English then i believe that i would feel less uncomfortable. There is good and bad and surely we can't be saying that the influx of eastern europeans has only brought good things?? Surely not???
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Post by Harry on Apr 21, 2009 16:24:01 GMT
Of course we can't tar everyone like this but you can see how incidents just like this adds to the fears and mistrust???
Man on trial over car park murder
Shirley Finlay's body was found ina car park in 2006
A man has gone on trial accusing of murdering a County Antrim woman nearly three years ago.
The partially-clothed body of Shirley Finlay, 24, was found wrapped in a duvet and bound with bin bags in a car park in September 2006.
Henryk Gorski, 51, of Hill Street in Ballymena, but originally from Poland, denies murdering Ms Finlay between 17 September 2006 and 20 September 2006.
Antrim Crown Court heard she had been strangled.
Opening the case for the prosecution, Richard Weir QC, said a post mortem also showed Ms Finlay had been beaten about the face.
A jury of five men and seven women heard the case was based on circumstantial evidence; that the accused's fingerprints had been found on the bin liners and DNA from his former lover was found on a grey jacket discarded at the scene.
The jury also heard that carpet fibres and paint from his flat were found on items covering the body.
Mr Weir said that while the accused suggested to police an "erstwhile lover" had framed him, he could not explain how his fingerprints got on the bin bags nor any of other "hard facts" linking him to Ms Finlay's body.
Earlier, Mr Weir said that Ms Finlay, had "an unhappy background, having spent time in care and in foster care".
Ms Finlay's body was found wrapped in a duvet in a car park in Ballymena
He said she was last seen alive in and around Ballymena and near the doorway of Mr Gorski's flat the night before her body was found.
The alarm was initially raised by a man who spotted a suspicious bundle in Hill Street car park the following afternoon and reported the matter to his boss in work who contacted police. It was later found to contain a body.
Besides Ms Finlay's body, two items of clothing, a red top and a grey coloured fleece along with a pink towel were also found with her, as was a discarded grey coloured jacket recovered nearby.
When the black bin bags were examined five marks, found on the outside, were matched to Gorski's left fore finger, his left little finger, his right palm and his right middle finger.
Mr Weir also revealed that on the duvet cover grey paint fragments were recovered which matched those from a satellite dish found in the flat as did flakes of paint found on the floors, roof and a pushchair.
The court also heard that fibres were found on the pink towel which were similar to fibres taken from two different carpets in the flat.
On the carpet in the hallway, police also found a strand of dyed blonde hair which was consistent with, and gave a partial DNA match with Ms Finlay's hair.
The trial is expected to take up to nine weeks to complete, as all of the evidence has to be translated into Polish as Mr Gorski does not understand English.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 21, 2009 21:04:10 GMT
Well that's approaching 50% of the total population of NI at this stage WASP. Where do you get appracing 50% from? |
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