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Post by earl on Apr 22, 2009 12:33:48 GMT
Where do you get appracing 50% from? [/i] The nationalist population is up around the 40% mark or so and then there's the percentage of immigrants. |
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Post by earl on Apr 22, 2009 12:38:04 GMT
I meant to say languages and not accents. I walk up the main street where i live and there must be 5 or 6 Eastern European shops. If they spoke English then i believe that i would feel less uncomfortable. There is good and bad and surely we can't be saying that the influx of eastern europeans has only brought good things?? Surely not??? There is always a downside. There will always be bad people, but they are always in the minority. There is no such thing as a nation of evil scroungers whose only purpose is to emigrate to other countries, to rape, rob and pillage and to sit at home all day doing nothing while collecting benefits. Do you think that the majority of immigrants, from countless different backgrounds and geographic locations, are up to no good? |
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Post by Harry on Apr 22, 2009 13:52:46 GMT
No i don't think all of them at all. I'm trying to explain why i have reservations and understand why others feel the same. I just don't buy into this notion that we must welcome everyone with open arms and don't dare upset the status quo for the fear of being label racist.
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Post by earl on Apr 22, 2009 16:56:13 GMT
Now that's the other extreme! I don't believe in an open door myself. I do believe that a country requires a flexible immigration policy (for non EU of course), which allows the right skill sets in for positions which can't be filled internally. Problems do arise and I would have to say that I would not be a fan of the UK's multi-cultural approach. Our policies are centred around integration over multiculturalism, but without standing on anyones civil rights.
By the way, you don't have to fear being frank on this (and I know that you are anyway!), I certainly don't have you pegged anywhere near being a racist.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 22, 2009 17:09:30 GMT
Where do you get appracing 50% from? [/i] The nationalist population is up around the 40% mark or so and then there's the percentage of immigrants. [/quote] Again where do you get the 40% figure from? Concerning my post I was referring to British born muslim extremists and others whos parents came here to live from overseas. I was not referring to nationalists. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 22, 2009 19:03:38 GMT
As someone that plans to emigrate I have no distaste for people that enter Britain if they learn to integrate, not stand on the side lines. If and when I move to another country I'll be doing all I can to integrate into their society, people that don't do that shouldn't enter another country.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 22, 2009 21:29:12 GMT
As someone that plans to emigrate I have no distaste for people that enter Britain if they learn to integrate, not stand on the side lines. If and when I move to another country I'll be doing all I can to integrate into their society, people that don't do that shouldn't enter another country. Its not very often we agree but that was an excellent post which I totally agree with. Where you thinking of going to by BTW? |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 22, 2009 23:23:25 GMT
Jim when you emigrate it will be from a 'secure' social background. By that I mean, you are not fleeing famine, political torture, or extreme economic poverty. Yes you will be looking to improve your economic prospects but you will be able to return if it does not work out.
Let us look at Britain in particular. What ethnic groups totally integrate? Why is it that we see large sections of British society outside of the 'White/Christian/English speaking' sections. Is it because they are not white, Christian, or English speaking? Is the British media owned and controlled by the 'white/Christian/English speaking only'? So who is shaping our image of what is right and what is outside of 'normal'? In a modern democratic society there is nothing wrong with sections (ethnic groups) looking to maintain their tradition. So long as they abide by laws that exist and those traditions do not infringe on those laws.
I find it odd that some oppose those that will not fully integrate in Britain. But in Ireland we had a foreign group introduced into Ireland by way of 'plantation'. That refused and still do refuse to fully integrate into an All Ireland society. They try to maintain and impose a 'Orange' tradition on the native population and will not fully embrace the native tongue in Ireland. Is this not two conflicting view points on the same issue?
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Post by Jim on Apr 23, 2009 17:38:56 GMT
Jim when you emigrate it will be from a 'secure' social background. By that I mean, you are not fleeing famine, political torture, or extreme economic poverty. Yes you will be looking to improve your economic prospects but you will be able to return if it does not work out. Let us look at Britain in particular. What ethnic groups totally integrate? Why is it that we see large sections of British society outside of the 'White/Christian/English speaking' sections. Is it because they are not white, Christian, or English speaking? Is the British media owned and controlled by the 'white/Christian/English speaking only'? So who is shaping our image of what is right and what is outside of 'normal'? In a modern democratic society there is nothing wrong with sections (ethnic groups) looking to maintain their tradition. So long as they abide by laws that exist and those traditions do not infringe on those laws. I find it odd that some oppose those that will not fully integrate in Britain. But in Ireland we had a foreign group introduced into Ireland by way of 'plantation'. That refused and still do refuse to fully integrate into an All Ireland society. They try to maintain and impose a 'Orange' tradition on the native population and will not fully embrace the native tongue in Ireland. Is this not two conflicting view points on the same issue? And many immigrants to Britain aren't fleeing fammine or for political reasons, either. Total integration is not the point, being able to speak the language to a good degree, accepting the culture of the country and not shying away from the general population and talking to no one but others from the same nationality is not integration however. What is normal, are the traditions and culture that has developed over hundreds of years in a country. The standard is different in different countries. I think you're looking at it as an all or nothing thing; interacting with the native population never has and never will mean dilution of your own culture. In Ireland we had plantations 300 years ago and you will read conflicting information on how they integrated (or didnt) with the Irish people; some places say they integrated well when it didn't come to wars, they learned the local language, and became part of that society fully, lets remember the Loyalist "I'm not Irish" identity is quite new, since say, after partition and during the troubles. Before that the Orange Order were speaking Irish and protestants considered themselves Irish. Not particularly the case in Britain. Lets put it this way, the Irish always had a similar culture and way of life as the Scottish (not to mention the idea that the Scottish came from the Irish first, true or not I dont know), and the planters that settled in the north of the island. Thats a far cry from immigration from various parts of the world that were at one time part of an Empire that had little interest in their culture, taking the "good" bits back to Britain and outlawing the "bad" bits. Two different situations completely. I'm Irish living in England, little difference between me and English people, I'm white too, so my accent is what gives it away. In Rusholme in Manchester if a white person walks down the main road you'll get some funny looks because they assume you're White and English. The reply of the English is if they don't like the place then get out. Now, I'm far from a racist or anti immigration, I'm in favour of immigration if they bring something worth while and are interested in becoming part of the new British culture on this island thats been forming for about 30 years, and helping cultures integrate, but until that happens, multi-culturalism doesn't exist, its a word used by people to assume it means something "good". There is no mixing and matching of cultures, each race hides away from the rest, the only two that mix fairly freely are the native whites and the black community, who have been here from the 50s. Asians and East Asians interact with no one but themselves. That is my point. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 23, 2009 17:45:15 GMT
As someone that plans to emigrate I have no distaste for people that enter Britain if they learn to integrate, not stand on the side lines. If and when I move to another country I'll be doing all I can to integrate into their society, people that don't do that shouldn't enter another country. Its not very often we agree but that was an excellent post which I totally agree with. Where you thinking of going to by BTW? Haven't a clue, wouldn't mind Germany, nice beer and nice birds  |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2009 22:34:13 GMT
That must be one of the most antagonizing posts you have wrote, I am not going to rise to your provocation as I see it as nothing more than a school yard squabble with a pupil who has a big chip on his shoulder. You just insulted the whole Unionist community on a subject to do with racist attacks. My native tongue is English and I like the N.Ireland PUL communitywas born and bred here, just as much as anyone else that was born and bred here.
We are not outsiders trying to impose anything on anyone, we are British living on British soil.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2009 22:36:17 GMT
Its not very often we agree but that was an excellent post which I totally agree with. Where you thinking of going to by BTW? Haven't a clue, wouldn't mind Germany, nice beer and nice birds Germany?  ?? Wouldn't fancy it myself mate. Saying that I went to Poland for a holiday and thought why on earth did I ever consider going here, yet I had a brilliant time in a beautiful country. I wouldn't mind S. Korea myself or perhaps Vietnam.  |
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2009 9:53:37 GMT
Those Korean chicks are extremely hot too. Let me know when you're going WASP! |
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Post by Jim on Apr 24, 2009 12:05:49 GMT
We dont need to be farting on about the border in this topic lads it has fuck all to do with immigration.
And aye, Germany, Germans know how to drink, its casual for them and I'm a casual drinker (read: alcoholic)
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2009 13:39:27 GMT
Ah lets not go down the same old avenues, getting each other all worked up. Regardless of the nationality of the actual soil itself in NI, and the technicalities between the definitions of the terms UK and Britain, we can all accept that it's British sovereignty. Any arguments about definitions and soil nationality are unproductive and pointless.
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?? Wouldn't fancy it myself mate. Saying that I went to Poland for a holiday and thought why on earth did I ever consider going here, yet I had a brilliant time in a beautiful country.