Protestant exodus in Londonderry

[earl]

harry said:

Setanta perhaps you can answer what SF want to achieve through this equality practice?? Is it the case of all Council chambers have no symbols relating to any side or is it that the council chambers should reflect the area?? Then we have to work out what is deemed offensive and IF it needs research into it then i'd be pretty happy to assume its not any offence to anyone. Council chambers, council estates etc are all the same to me. Where does this stop and what will SF propose to give or sacrifice in the interest of equality?? Will SF seek to take these measures into Republican areas or those maybe not so republican but with Republican murals,statues or emblems??

The Irish Tricolor is offensive to a great deal of Unionists, will SF be happy to have no Tricolors about the place?? Will the lack of Tricolors be directly related to the flying of Union Jacks?? Do SF accept the legitimacy of the Union flag as our flag and in turn Unionists must understand why others don't see the Union Flag as their own. Its really complicated and impossible and i mean impossible to satisfy everyone. What i would ask of SF is that the issue of symbols etc be put on the back burner for a later day. Is isn't going to go away and we as Unionists and more so Loyalists realise this but why put salt in a sore wound??

I don't think removing symbols will work as it will most certainly be seen as defeat or as removal of culture. The only possible solution is the mixing of symbols and perhaps the introduction of new ones. Do SF see what the removal of symbols means to the Unionist community?? Is there an agreement between all shades of nationalism as to what is deemed offensive?? I would imagine there could be difference between the SDLP and SF???

What must be said is that Unionsist politicians must stop boycotting things simply because they disapprove of the agenda. If we have issues then prepare to represent our case and prove why symbols etc are important instead of shying away. We have every right to have British symbols in council chambers, and have every right to prevent any Purge of such symbols.

Feckin' excellent post mate.

[Wasp]

It just shows how raw peoples feelings are. If the council was voting to erect a statue of this amn and there was all this bickering my reaction would be have they not alot of better things to do such as providing care for the elderly, the poor, reducing crime, increasing hospital beds, providing better care for the disabled/special needs, tackling unemployment etc etc. I would want the statue put on the back burner and let everyone get adjusted to the political climate and worry about the importnat issues facing us all.

[Jim]

I'd rather statues go up of important people to the culture of this island and not just british or northern unionists or republicans, to be honest.

but they can keep that oscar wilde statue in dublin, it looks too camp for us hard men up north.

[Wasp]

I think this statue was so important due to the fact he went on to become N.Zealand PM which is an achievement itself. I have chatted with Liam Neeson and I think he is a real sound bloke and I certainly would support a statue of him in years to come. We should be proud of people from here who have went on to become famous IMO and reflect whatever tourism they may bring to our shores with a statue of some sort.

[Wasp]

There are and has been many more Orangemen/women than Massey and they do not have staues in their honour so IMO sinn fein are clutching at straws to try and be offended. He left Limavady at the age of 14 so in reality he wasn't an Orangeman when he was here he was a teenager and a young teenager at that. I have read elsewhere that he made anti-Catholic speeches as an Orangemna in Limavady so given his age I find that hard to believe.

Anyway Massey was born on 26 March 1856 in Limavady, and arrived in the City of Auckland on 11 December 1870 and settled in Taranaki. On 10 July 1912 Massey was sworn in as Prime Minister, and on the 17 December the Reform party returned to office. It was the largest majority Massey ever commanded as Prime Minister. He died on 10 May 1925.

I believe his statue was unveiled by an SDLP Councillor.

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

setanta said:

halflife said:

I have not said i am for or against symbols of any discription i am just interested in why sinn fein are not prepared to put thier money were thier mouth and lead by example, surly a neutral enrivorment means removel of all symbols so if thats what sinn fein really wants when is the hunger strike memorial in dungiven coming down? it is after all in the same electorol ward as Limavady, try surprizing me satanta and come up with a responce different from the usual 'but the unionists' or are you going to tell me that sinn fein policy is just reactionary to whatever unionists allegedly do?

In this instance it was removal of symbols in the council offices to ensure a neutral working enviroment.
Lets stick to the original artical and if this issue is resolved we can move on to symbols elsewhere.
All of those articals mentioned in the original artical are in Limivady Council Offices including the statue of Massey Ferguson.
There are NO Nationalist Statues or pictures in these offices.
Unionist Politicions have yet to respond positively to Sinn Fein’s policy of equality or neutrality regarding flags and symbols in civic buildings quite simply due to the fact that unionist political leaders utterly refuse to acknowledge and confer legitimacy on the Irish nationalist identity where they remain in the majority at local government level.
When parity is asked for anywhere, be it the erection of a Nationalist Icon statue alongside a Unionist Icon, (Stormont) or the removal of Unionist Icons/Symbols to match the complete absense of Nationalist Icons/Symbols (Limvady), it is met with hysteria, fear and anger from Unionist Reps.

When Alex Maskey was Mayor of Belfast he had the Union Flag alongside the Irish Tricolour. Can you name any Unionist Mayor that would even consider that parity of symbols?

Do Unionist want it balanced or neutral in Council Offices?
Will they ever grant the level of respect to Nationalists that they demand FROM Nationalists.
Nationalists aren't asking for anything more then Unionists have.

So Wilderness after we sort out symbols at Government Offices we can concentrate on Symbols on public/private land.

WASP, There are already memorials to the UVF/UDA.

I actually asked you to reply to me avoiding using the usual republican langague of 'but the unionists' and to show that republican politics are not reactionary you failed on both accounts. And jim the liklyhood is that sinn fein were invloved if not orginized the funding for that hungerstiker memorial in dungiven so it comes down to this are sinn fein able to show that this policy in limavady is not just an excuse to wipe out the unionist culture, are they willing to show that thier objective is honestly to create neutral envoirments by removing symbols that are offensive to unionists, after all if they did do that makes it alot harder for unionists to bitch about the removel of thiers.
Since we are on the subject of memorials what about the omagh bomb memorial, seems a certain party whats to move it, seems the realtives of the bomb victems feel that the only reason its being moved is because it blames the bomb on republicans, whats your thoughts on that?
By the wat limavady is in county londonderry so we are still on thread

[Harry]

I'm not just refering to this particular case being put on the back burner. If nationalists are in council and making equal decisions and having an equal say on what goes on does it make them less equal because they have no statues or symbols in the place?? Likewise for Unionists, if they are given equality in the chambers and allowed to participate, what does it matter if there is a few Nationalist emblems about the place.

What is really important and what is minor trivia that always makes a mountain out of a mole hill?? Unionism is still deeply obsessed with symbols,flags and emblems and it looks like SF suffer from the same burden that hinders growth.

Living and working together and creating a future together is more important than statues or flags. Maybe i'm wrong but i strive for equality where it counts and what hangs on the wall or sits outside will sort itself out as time heals and teaches