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Post by Wasp on Jan 23, 2008 17:32:42 GMT
My oh my what a stupid, idiotic and deceitful thing to say. Obviously shades you like many people up here, still have a very large chip on your shoulder. Denial denial denial.
Setanta you were talking in the past tense about nationalist monuments etc, well you had to be otherwise you know nothing about up here. Anyway I replied 'rightly so because of what these symbols represented'and you came back with the 'so nationalist symbols should be outlawed'. Which meant you were moving the goal posts from talking about years ago which I answered to having me meaning now. Do you purposely misquote me or try to twist round what I say?
Now why did you post about Ahoghill?
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Post by Shades40 on Jan 23, 2008 18:57:22 GMT
My oh my what a stupid, idiotic and deceitful thing to say. Obviously shades you like many people up here, still have a very large chip on your shoulder. Denial denial denial. If your going to call me stupid at least have the gumption to explain why that is so  Another example of their siege mentality is on their websites in which a Nationalist is called "an oxygen thief" (they don't deserve to breath?) and promptly banned |
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Post by Wasp on Jan 23, 2008 20:37:56 GMT
Shades the website in question is for the PUL community and promotion of the culture. The reason there are oxygen thiefs is the fact that there are those who pretend to be something else and those who wish soley to cause trouble. For me I do not see the point of me going to a website for the republican/nationalist community and pretend to be one of them or simply to shit stir.
If you don't like the ethos of the site, what they stand for etc then the answer is simple, DON'T GO. Republicans are obsessed with Calton.
Now I did not call you stupid, I said what a stupid thing to say. If you have a problem with the siege mentality you should remember who put it there and who helped maintain it and strengthen it by attacking them for decades.
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Post by Wasp on Jan 23, 2008 20:43:43 GMT
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Jan 23, 2008 21:12:01 GMT
I re-read you post. End of. I said this. End of. and this is what you said. End of I'm going to stop with the Telegraph speak now. End of. I checked up on those attacks you spoke about and came with a blank on the paint. Point me in the right direction please, Wilderness dude have you found that link that said Sinn Féin advocated repatriation yet? and on the removal of symbols, if I remember correctly there have been repeated Unionist requests for various Republican Memorials to be removed, Wilderness. They got no where of course because they didn't go through the proper channels or articulate their arguments very well. We're useing the proper channels I have not said i am for or against symbols of any discription i am just interested in why sinn fein are not prepared to put thier money were thier mouth and lead by example, surly a neutral enrivorment means removel of all symbols so if thats what sinn fein really wants when is the hunger strike memorial in dungiven coming down? it is after all in the same electorol ward as Limavady, try surprizing me satanta and come up with a responce different from the usual 'but the unionists' or are you going to tell me that sinn fein policy is just reactionary to whatever unionists allegedly do? |
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Post by Jim on Jan 24, 2008 10:24:09 GMT
Hunger strike memorials are often provided by the community itself, how can they ask their constituents to take them down? You know what happened last time a symbol was forced down.
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Post by Shades40 on Jan 24, 2008 14:08:14 GMT
Shades the website in question is for the PUL community and promotion of the culture. The reason there are oxygen thiefs is the fact that there are those who pretend to be something else and those who wish soley to cause trouble. For me I do not see the point of me going to a website for the republican/nationalist community and pretend to be one of them or simply to shit stir. If you don't like the ethos of the site, what they stand for etc then the answer is simple, DON'T GO. Republicans are obsessed with Calton. Now I did not call you stupid, I said what a stupid thing to say. If you have a problem with the siege mentality you should remember who put it there and who helped maintain it and strengthen it by attacking them for decades. I love the site WASP, hatred, infighting, severely bad grammar, fantasy stories, a warped one sided view, this site comes a close second ;D christianforums.com/t3685169&page=3 |
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Jan 24, 2008 16:30:09 GMT
Hunger strike memorials are often provided by the community itself, how can they ask their constituents to take them down? You know what happened last time a symbol was forced down. Parhaps you should direct that comment towards sinn fein since it is they that are demanding the removel of symbols, i am just afer some parity of esteem if unionist symbols must be takern down, surly its only fair that republican ones are takern down to? |
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Post by Jim on Jan 24, 2008 20:23:32 GMT
There are a lot of symbols funded by councils directly. The hunger strike memorials that I know of at least, arent.
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Jan 24, 2008 23:03:49 GMT
so thats the difference is it, republicans can cause as much offence as they like as long as they pay for it themselves does that work the other way as well, how about the mainly unionist residents of limavady have a fund riser and build a statue commerating the B-specials just as long as they pay for it themselves, you ok with that? of course in keeping with parity of esteem since republicans can errect momuments on council land then its ok for us prods to do the same that sound far to you?
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Post by Wasp on Jan 24, 2008 23:39:15 GMT
so thats the difference is it, republicans can cause as much offence as they like as long as they pay for it themselves does that work the other way as well, how about the mainly unionist residents of limavady have a fund riser and build a statue commerating the B-specials just as long as they pay for it themselves, you ok with that? of course in keeping with parity of esteem since republicans can errect momuments on council land then its ok for us prods to do the same that sound far to you? Excellent points. Why not a statue dedicated to the SAS and the risks they took. After watching a fantastic documentary earlier about them I cannot get over there bravery and how they risked there own lives bigtime in saving others. Fuck they have balls of steal. But in the interests of equality I think loyalists should erect monuments of there chosen groups, be it the lvf, uda, uvf etc in mainly Unionist towns just to make things alot fairer. |
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Post by earl on Jan 25, 2008 10:15:27 GMT
I have not said i am for or against symbols of any discription i am just interested in why sinn fein are not prepared to put thier money were thier mouth and lead by example, surly a neutral enrivorment means removel of all symbols so if thats what sinn fein really wants when is the hunger strike memorial in dungiven coming down? it is after all in the same electorol ward as Limavady, try surprizing me satanta and come up with a responce different from the usual 'but the unionists' or are you going to tell me that sinn fein policy is just reactionary to whatever unionists allegedly do? In this instance it was removal of symbols in the council offices to ensure a neutral working enviroment. Lets stick to the original artical and if this issue is resolved we can move on to symbols elsewhere. All of those articals mentioned in the original artical are in Limivady Council Offices including the statue of Massey Ferguson. Nationalist. There are NO Nationalist Statues or pictures in these offices. Unionist Politicions have yet to respond positively to Sinn Fein’s policy of equality or neutrality regarding flags and symbols in civic buildings quite simply due to the fact that unionist political leaders utterly refuse to acknowledge and confer legitimacy on the Irish nationalist identity where they remain in the majority at local government level. When parity is asked for anywhere, be it the erection of a Nationalist Icon statue alongside a Unionist Icon, (Stormont) or the removal of Unionist Icons/Symbols to match the complete absense of Nationalist Icons/Symbols (Limvady), it is met with hysteria, fear and anger frpom Unionist Reps. When Alex Maskey was Mayor of Belfast he had the Union Flag alongside the Irish Tricolour. Can you name any Unionist Mayor that would even consider that parity of symbols? Do Unionist want it balanced or neutral in Council Offices? Will they every grant the level of respect to Nationalists that they demand FROM Nationalists. Nationalists aren't asking for anything more then Unionists have. So Wilderness after we sort out symbols at Government Offices we can concentrate on Symbols on public/private land. WASP, There are already memorials to the UVF/UDA. well put Setanta. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 25, 2008 11:51:58 GMT
so thats the difference is it, republicans can cause as much offence as they like as long as they pay for it themselves does that work the other way as well, how about the mainly unionist residents of limavady have a fund riser and build a statue commerating the B-specials just as long as they pay for it themselves, you ok with that? of course in keeping with parity of esteem since republicans can errect momuments on council land then its ok for us prods to do the same that sound far to you? Nope, dont put words in my mouth or assume I mean anything other than what I set out to mean. Taking Belfast as an example, they dont pay a penny to any republican mural, commemoration or symbols that I know of, it took a decade to get the cash from them for a st patricks day parade into the city center, nevermind commemorating the hunger strikers. Money comes from other sources, there are no republican symbols that I know of standing at the City hall or at Stormont, but there are unionist ones mind you. Keep that in mind. Loyalist areas have as many symbols and murals and commemorations as we do. |
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Post by Wasp on Jan 25, 2008 13:32:56 GMT
Why?? All threads expand and this is still within the topic ie symbols monuments etc. If this is the case with this thread then are you going to apply the same rule with the rest of the threads?? For starters they had to search the internet to see if they would be offended or not. The statue is behind a tree FFS and isn't exactly in public view like a war memorial. This man was famous as he went on to become prime minister of N.Zealand and very few towns can claim something as famous or has something to be as proud of as that. But no sinn fein had to check to see if they would be offended at this statue and when they found he was an orangeman then they were offended.  No what sinn fein do is antagonize and infuriate people with there pettiness then they twist things around to have it all about them, knowing fine well Unionists are wound up and are less than likely to accomodate sinn fein as things stand because of sinn feins behaviour. This is something sinn fein are experts at and they are far from interested in equality and peace. You have to understand what these symbols stand for and represent, because republicans tried to bomb and shoot the Unionist people into submission so you can hardly expect them to immediately agree to this and that. Sinn fein is to blame entirely with there double speak and hypocricy. No matter what you think or anyone else thinks the Tri-colour is a foreign flag and the Union Jack is the flag of N.Ireland. So he done nothing by having the legal and rightful flag of the country in his office. You also have to remember that the tri-colour in N.I represents the ira and this is not the fault of UNionists but republicans. The tri-colour in the republic is completely different and viewed differently. Typical sinn fein twisting of things, you make out nationalsits are only looking for what Unionists have? Bollocks sinn fein made a fuck up of this knowing it would create and maintain trouble and division which they are experts at. Has nationalist council offices in say Newry etc got any nationalist symbols. Yeh yeh avoid the situation and use one rule for this thread and one for the others. NO WE will sort this out when we sort out republican symbols and monuments. You seem to think you are in control of what order we do business, well you are not and Unionists are stating when republicans sort there monuments then we can sort out neutrality. After all this man was not a terrorist, he was an orangeman. dID HE KILL anyone like what republican monuments commemorate. I know but we are not talking about in loyalist estates we are talking about loyalist towns where the majority are loyalist. The reverse of Dungiven or better still Kilrea which doesnt have a massive nationalist majority, it is about 70/30 in favour of nationalists. They have an ira memorial and funny nationalist councillors moan about flags such as the Union Jack but are very silent on a memortial to terrorists. |
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Post by Harry on Jan 25, 2008 16:40:39 GMT
Setanta perhaps you can answer what SF want to achieve through this equality practice?? Is it the case of all Council chambers have no symbols relating to any side or is it that the council chambers should reflect the area?? Then we have to work out what is deemed offensive and IF it needs research into it then i'd be pretty happy to assume its not any offence to anyone. Council chambers, council estates etc are all the same to me. Where does this stop and what will SF propose to give or sacrifice in the interest of equality?? Will SF seek to take these measures into Republican areas or those maybe not so republican but with Republican murals,statues or emblems??
The Irish Tricolor is offensive to a great deal of Unionists, will SF be happy to have no Tricolors about the place?? Will the lack of Tricolors be directly related to the flying of Union Jacks?? Do SF accept the legitimacy of the Union flag as our flag and in turn Unionists must understand why others don't see the Union Flag as their own. Its really complicated and impossible and i mean impossible to satisfy everyone. What i would ask of SF is that the issue of symbols etc be put on the back burner for a later day. Is isn't going to go away and we as Unionists and more so Loyalists realise this but why put salt in a sore wound??
I don't think removing symbols will work as it will most certainly be seen as defeat or as removal of culture. The only possible solution is the mixing of symbols and perhaps the introduction of new ones. Do SF see what the removal of symbols means to the Unionist community?? Is there an agreement between all shades of nationalism as to what is deemed offensive?? I would imagine there could be difference between the SDLP and SF???
What must be said is that Unionsist politicians must stop boycotting things simply because they disapprove of the agenda. If we have issues then prepare to represent our case and prove why symbols etc are important instead of shying away. We have every right to have British symbols in council chambers, and have every right to prevent any Purge of such symbols.
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Another example of their siege mentality is on their websites in which a Nationalist is called "an oxygen thief" (they don't deserve to breath?) and promptly banned 
