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Post by Harry on Jan 21, 2008 9:45:45 GMT
Its a petty tactic but a common one used by SF. They play the game and use the umbrella of equality as a means to justify their campaign to rid NI of anything British. Make no mistake that is what SF want to do so we shouldn't be surprised by anything they do. They will measure roads to the inch so they will certainly have no problems removing statues or anything else that may mean something to the other side but to them it only symbolises British rule so our rights go out the window. Sure lets fill the place with meaningless republican items also simply to make it 'equal'. What a load of rubbish. If something of genuine nationalist pride from the area is put in there then no one can have any problems with it and Unionists should accept it but simply balancing it simply just to make it balance is childish.
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Post by Wasp on Jan 21, 2008 12:17:26 GMT
What sinn fein do is they antagonize Unionistsa with their petty claims, they even search the internet to see if they are offended or not. Then they throw in the equality claim knowing fine well that as they have already done there best to anger Unionists they know Unionists will make a stand. Then in the worlds eyes the Unionists are the big baddies. Typical sinn fein hypocritical tactics, in reality they are only proving peace and reconcilliation is far from there agenda.
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Post by Wasp on Jan 21, 2008 12:48:29 GMT
Usual sinn fein dribble. Yeh a mug and paper weight are big offensive symblos etc.
Not even worth a reply, usual republican twisting of things. Comparing a mug, a statue which sinn fein had to search the internet to see if they would or would not be offended is hardly compariable.
Simple fact is that sinn fein hate anything remotely British apart from the benefits side of what Britain has to offer.
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2008 13:17:36 GMT
Usual unionist dodging.
Would you or would you not want nationalist symbols removed from a unionist constituency or ward?
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Post by Wasp on Jan 21, 2008 13:23:35 GMT
name me a nationalist ward that now has a Unionist majority, name the symbols and I will answer you.
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2008 13:38:46 GMT
You're dodging the question again. Weither one exists or not is not the question, its if it were to exist or not.
Lets take Belfast as a whole, plenty of nationalists, plenty of unionists, yet the place is filled with british and unionist symbols on an official level, there are virtually no nationalist symbols put up as far as I know that are from an irish nationalist stand point, even the flag on the city hall represents only one half of the people in belfast. What would you say if Carson was to be removed from Stormont for a big statue of Connolly? What would you say to the Tricolour being up beside the Union jack? Could go on all day with examples.
You would clearly be against it, and have been against it. You would even be against it if suddenly tomorrow Belfast was a majority nationalist city.
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Post by Harry on Jan 21, 2008 13:45:57 GMT
Harry are you not concerned that Unionist Politicions were not in those meetings representing Unionism? I agree that getting rid of a tea cup is feckin stupid, but the fact is that it is a majority Nationalist area and there isn't parity of symbols there. I really couldn't be bothered with a lot of it though. Yes i am concerned and struggle to grasp what we achieve through boycotting talks. Are we so weak that we can't debate and prove our points through negotiations and hence ensure nothing is done without input from our own community or is it the case where nothing can be actioned unless agreeded or debated by all sides in which case Unionists make sure nothing happens simply by not being there?  ? |
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Post by Wasp on Jan 21, 2008 14:57:37 GMT
Are these areas now largely Unionists like Limavady changed to mainly nationalist? See I don't think you can name one. Anyway if how Portestants were treated is anything to go by then it was right, there was a large amount of Protestants and to leave them out in the cold to possibly face what happened to others would have been wrong.
And rightly so because of what these symbols represented. Does Newry have nationalist symbols or is that another myth.
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Post by earl on Jan 21, 2008 15:12:35 GMT
Yes i am concerned and struggle to grasp what we achieve through boycotting talks. Are we so weak that we can't debate and prove our points through negotiations and hence ensure nothing is done without input from our own community or is it the case where nothing can be actioned unless agreeded or debated by all sides in which case Unionists make sure nothing happens simply by not being there? ? I find that the more progressive of Unionist politicians are more inclined to try and keep the status quo, whereas the conservative Unionist politicians try and wind the clock back! Unionism as a political ideal is all about the status quo. Unfortunately, NI is like every other country on the planet, where change is inevitable. Especially with the whole subject of parity of esteem, things were going to change. This is the dilemma for Unionists. For NI to survive within the UK, it needs to change to become more accommodating to others who are not from the PUL community. In essence (and paradoxically from a Unionist perspective) NI has to grow 'greener' to survive within the UK, but this also in other respects strengthens the Republicans hand. For NI to work within the UK, it needs to turn greener AND try and convince those non-PUL's that not only will their traditions be respected, but that their future lies within the British establishment (As a republican, this is where I see the Unionist argument fall flat because clearly, the modern age is the age of the small country, because they can adapt and change faster to an ever rapidly changing environment than a large country can. So there.  ). So far, the Unionist response to the new climate in NI has been one of 'Well ye accepted that yis are part of the UK, so ye can stop yer silly talk about a UI'. That's not what the GFA was about, and this is not how it's going to work. The whole point of the political setup (besides from being a means for the British government to make it easier to wipe it's hands clean of NI if the time comes, but in the meantime means that they can go back to ignoring it as they did pre-1960s) now is to level the playing field for both political traditions. In essence, the battle is only just beginning for the future! In regards, the article about SF here, if they had to google some stuff up to see if it offends them, then that's sad. If there is a statue up for a local hero/famous local, then that should be treated as a special case. Regardless of what side of the political fence they were on, they were still local. There may be certain exceptions to this rule, but in general this should be the norm. |
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Jan 22, 2008 1:12:47 GMT
Since sinn fein are so concerned about making towns/citys/villages etc neutral enviroments were everybody can feel comfortable why don't they lead way and remove the hunger striker memorial in dungiven? or is it just unionist symbols that have to be removed to make things netural?
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Jan 22, 2008 16:18:47 GMT
Since sinn fein are so concerned about making towns/citys/villages etc neutral enviroments were everybody can feel comfortable why don't they lead way and remove the hunger striker memorial in dungannon? or is it just unionist symbols that have to be removed to make things netural? It's in the Council Offices and grounds Wilderness. But since we're all for keeping symbols and remembering local heros in council offices and grounds maybe we can erect a Hunger Strike Memorial in Dungannon Council Offices. Have you found were you read that Sinn Féin advocated repatriation yet? Why what happened to other Protestants WASP? WASP, Nationalists have been out-breeding Unionists for decades now. Have a look at the Wards with the highest amount of children and young people and then look at the Ward with the most Pensioners. But anyway look at the forced removal of Nationalist families in Ahoghill www.dfpni.gov.uk/mid-year_population_estimates_ni_2005.pdfAnd rightly so because of what these symbols represented. Does Newry have nationalist symbols or is that another myth? So Nationalist Symbols should be outlawed...... I think this is the end of this conversation WASP. Sorry made a mistake i ment dungiven but the point still stands (and as far as i am aware it had been ericted on coucil land, certinly the one in downpatrick has been) but i see by your totally expected reply that sinn Fein are not prepared to put thier money were thier mouth is and lead by example, as it is the only people who seem to be talking about outlawing symbols (well unionists symbols anyway) are sinn fein |
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Post by earl on Jan 22, 2008 16:35:44 GMT
Sorry made a mistake i ment dungiven but the point still stands (and as far as i am aware it had been ericted on coucil land, certinly the one in downpatrick has been) but i see by your totally expected reply that sinn Fein are not prepared to put thier money were thier mouth is and lead by example, as it is the only people who seem to be talking about outlawing symbols (well unionists symbols anyway) are sinn fein good to see that you are against outlawing flags and symbols. Pity some Unionists didn't think so back in the days of old Stormont. |
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Post by Wasp on Jan 22, 2008 18:18:21 GMT
Oh absolutely nothing happened to other Protestants.  Mmmm why are post about Ahoghil??? Is this in reply to the very notion that I said about what happened to Protestants. I don't need you to provide me with links concerning what happened in Ahoghill because I was involved in it. Now if you are going to post about Ahoghill I think you should take a good look at republicans targeting Protestants in there homes etc. Also take a look at Harryville Church where republicans also attacked it to blame loyalists when some loyalist thugs had already foolishly done so. Check up on the attacks on Protestant homes in Dunclug and you will find the same was used on Harryville chapel on at least one occasion. No problem, but let me add that you are once again putting words into my mouth. I did not say nationalist symbols should be outlawed. Re-read my friggin post. End of. |
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Post by Shades40 on Jan 23, 2008 13:21:34 GMT
Having spoken to many people from D/LD they all said the same "Unionist politicians instilled fear into them about the threat of Republicans" hence the exodus.
Even a town such as Bessbrook which was 95% Unionist while it had one of the largest military bases is now the opposite with many of the Unionists moving to Banbridge over the last 10 years.
Where I live the same as happened, estates that where exclusively Unionist are now Nationalist with a few Unionists remaining (they even have red, white and blue kerb stones still) I believe this points to the siege mentality of Unionists and what we will end up with is towns being either Unionist or Nationalist and mainly because of the actions of Unionists.
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Post by Shades40 on Jan 23, 2008 13:29:52 GMT
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