Willie F analyses anti-semitism in Irish history

[Jim]

dont be a fool republic, we all know god picked the 6 counties himself to form the state.

[Republic]

I dont know what his posts said, but I think it should have been left up on the site unless it contained personal attacks or abuse towards another member.

[Republic]

setanta said:

Here's the rules as they they appear on the top of every section of the site.
If anyone has anything further to add on this please do it in the Town Hall, and leave this section for this debate............................... bleedin confusing enough as it is!

1.)No members shall be discriminated against because of Religion,Race,Sexual Orientation.
2.)No posts that encourage violence, racism, sexism or religious bigotry.
3.)Name calling will not be tolerated.
4.)No member shall be subjected to personal threats of any kind and anyone doing so will be banned.
5.)WE allow avatars that do not depict or encourage violence, racism, sexism etc
6.)Keep all posts in the appropriate Section.
7.)Admin will reserves the right to remove any posts or avatars that break these rules without any notice.

RATIONAL AND REASONABLE DEBATE ONLY!

Which rule did he break?

[earl]

blueman said:

Sorry I have been away for a few days and I am trying to play catch up. Having read your link I have to say that at least Michael McDowell is man enough to stand up and tell the truth.

With regards the alledged help the Allies received prior to the D-Day landings it was obvious who was going to win the war at that stage so it would be in the interests of the Irish State to hedge its bets. If Hitler and his henchmen would have won it might have been a different scenario and the true face of Irish Fascism would have been revealed. I strongly suspect it would have been a bleak outlook for the Jews and the Protestants.

If the IRA had to be interned even by the Free State Government it is very obvious to all but the willfully ignorant where their sympathies lay during the Second World War. Like their mentor in Berlin the true nature of the beast was exposed and they too think that they are the only people with a right to exist and everyone who refuses to bow to their hateful politics is to be exterminated. I suppose

[/b] that is why they call themselves 'Ourselves alone' and indeed like attracted like.

The leader of the IRA died on a German U-Boat, thankfully, and that is conclusive proof that the IRA conspired with their Nazi couterparts in their attempts to subdue the British people to their evil regimes. The murderous attacks during the war in Belfast and the rest of the UK shows exactly what these murderers are all about but what are a few historical facts like that to get in the way of Republican myth and propaganda. Sure they are only Irish Freedom Fighters helping to free Ireland from British oppression. The reality is that they are the oppressors and have the Irish people cowered to their evil ways until this day but the last elections give us some hope that the blinkers are coming off Irish eyes.

Maybe you are right people didn't know how bad the Nazis were and all those invasions were misconstrued and the Nazis like the IRA were just a bunch of affable and loveable craicsters just out for a bit of a hooley. Unless of course you were a Jew or a Protestant or even a Roman Catholic who wouldn't lick their jackboots and bow down to their murder and intimidation.

The Blueshirts, the Irish Christian Front, DeValera, Sean Russell, mass rallies in support of Fascists, Irish neutrality during the war, refusal to take Jews in, attitude of Roman priests to Jews etc, etc the list goes on and on to show that the Irish State was hostile to Jews and sympathetic to Nazis but at the end of the day if you don't want to believe the obvious that is up to you.

I have already stated that not all the Irish supported Fascism and many thousands came and volunteered to fight for the Allies. We owe such brave Irishmen and Irishwomen a debt of honour and considering the political landscape such brave men and women were coming from just adds to their valour as they were risking life and limb both at home and at war. I feel that they should be granted double honour for theirs was a double sacrifice.

[/quote]

The words highlighted show exactly how 'factual' this post is. Not even worth an arguement.

[blueman]

setanta said:

blueman said:

They are deleted because like their predecessors of old they don't like anyone who has a different outlook or perspective apart from their own. When they can't beat you with open debate and discussion they do what comes naturally to them and that is to silence you. It is a bit like their 'Free State', not to many 'Dissenting' voices down there now is there.

The modern day Nationalist Socialists aided and abetted by the sell out merchants from within don't like historical fact and try to airbrush the truth out of the history books. That is why they will try ever so hard to pretend that they didn't know about the Blueshirts, the Irish Christian Front, Sean Russell meeting the Nazis, the murderous Nazis given a safe haven after the war, the 40,000 Irish volunteers who fought for Britain during the war etc,etc. Lies and more lies are the order of the day and it is a tactic which has worked for them well down through the years.

Even when RTE make a programme about their shameful past it is ignored but, thank God, with modern day media, it is not just so easy airbrushing the facts out of history. I am not suprised by the treatment handed out by Setanta as that is the way Ulster Prods expect to be treated by Republicans but it is suprising that once Bilkie boy, the DUPER, appeared on the scene that is when the posts started to go missing. Poor oul Setanta took the rap but the more sinister element is perhaps more to blame. Strange boys these DUPERS.

Your posts were deleted for breaking the rules. I didn't remove anything about Russell, or the Nazis.

I removed your posts because they were rants mostly devoid of fact and full of accusations based on religous bigotry.
I'll remove them again and then ban you if it contines.
I did it, not bilk or any other sinister elements

Sure do what you have been busting to do and ban away. Just goes to show once again your country's intolerance of anybody who differs from your warped and twisted Republican logic. Your distortion of historical fact is there for all to see and your seeming inability to own up to your country's shameful past is very evident.

Edited by Setanta for breaking rule 2.

The Official IRA were drifting away from Sectarianism under the leadership of Cathal Goulding but the Roman Church aided and abetted by devout Romans from within the IRA and certain elements from within the 'Occupied' State had to get the IRA back to basics, and that was Naked Sectarianism, hence the formation of the Provisionals. So Setanta, I know exactly what your agenda is and I know exactly why my posts were removed, as you seek along with your pro Fascist comrades to keep the Irish and Ulster people under the Roman yoke of oppresssion and bondage.

[blueman]

earl said:

blueman said:

Sorry I have been away for a few days and I am trying to play catch up. Having read your link I have to say that at least Michael McDowell is man enough to stand up and tell the truth.

With regards the alledged help the Allies received prior to the D-Day landings it was obvious who was going to win the war at that stage so it would be in the interests of the Irish State to hedge its bets. If Hitler and his henchmen would have won it might have been a different scenario and the true face of Irish Fascism would have been revealed. I strongly suspect it would have been a bleak outlook for the Jews and the Protestants.

If the IRA had to be interned even by the Free State Government it is very obvious to all but the willfully ignorant where their sympathies lay during the Second World War. Like their mentor in Berlin the true nature of the beast was exposed and they too think that they are the only people with a right to exist and everyone who refuses to bow to their hateful politics is to be exterminated. I suppose

[/b] that is why they call themselves 'Ourselves alone' and indeed like attracted like.

The leader of the IRA died on a German U-Boat, thankfully, and that is conclusive proof that the IRA conspired with their Nazi couterparts in their attempts to subdue the British people to their evil regimes. The murderous attacks during the war in Belfast and the rest of the UK shows exactly what these murderers are all about but what are a few historical facts like that to get in the way of Republican myth and propaganda. Sure they are only Irish Freedom Fighters helping to free Ireland from British oppression. The reality is that they are the oppressors and have the Irish people cowered to their evil ways until this day but the last elections give us some hope that the blinkers are coming off Irish eyes.

Maybe you are right people didn't know how bad the Nazis were and all those invasions were misconstrued and the Nazis like the IRA were just a bunch of affable and loveable craicsters just out for a bit of a hooley. Unless of course you were a Jew or a Protestant or even a Roman Catholic who wouldn't lick their jackboots and bow down to their murder and intimidation.

The Blueshirts, the Irish Christian Front, DeValera, Sean Russell, mass rallies in support of Fascists, Irish neutrality during the war, refusal to take Jews in, attitude of Roman priests to Jews etc, etc the list goes on and on to show that the Irish State was hostile to Jews and sympathetic to Nazis but at the end of the day if you don't want to believe the obvious that is up to you.

I have already stated that not all the Irish supported Fascism and many thousands came and volunteered to fight for the Allies. We owe such brave Irishmen and Irishwomen a debt of honour and considering the political landscape such brave men and women were coming from just adds to their valour as they were risking life and limb both at home and at war. I feel that they should be granted double honour for theirs was a double sacrifice.

[/quote]

The words highlighted show exactly how 'factual' this post is. Not even worth an arguement. [/quote]

Coming from a man who thinks the Provisionals are some sort of left wing organisation fighting for the working classes you're own 'factual' assertions are hardly something to write home about. If your not too busy sometime come up to East Tyrone or South Armagh and see for yourself how the marxist rebels are living. It is most certainly not in poverty and deprivation as you would have the world to believe. Your Republican myth, lies and propaganda is being exposed continually at the moment and the watching world is catching on fast as to what Irish Republicanism is really all about. edited by Setanta for same reason as always.

[blueman]

republic said:

setanta said:

Here's the rules as they they appear on the top of every section of the site.
If anyone has anything further to add on this please do it in the Town Hall, and leave this section for this debate............................... bleedin confusing enough as it is!

1.)No members shall be discriminated against because of Religion,Race,Sexual Orientation.
2.)No posts that encourage violence, racism, sexism or religious bigotry.
3.)Name calling will not be tolerated.
4.)No member shall be subjected to personal threats of any kind and anyone doing so will be banned.
5.)WE allow avatars that do not depict or encourage violence, racism, sexism etc
6.)Keep all posts in the appropriate Section.
7.)Admin will reserves the right to remove any posts or avatars that break these rules without any notice.

RATIONAL AND REASONABLE DEBATE ONLY!

Which rule did he break?

I didn't break any rules, but highlighted the historical and now well documented links between the Irish State and Fascism, which didn't go down too well in Provo loving circles. Rational and reasonable debate means you tell the Provo lovers what great fellows they are and how wonderful their ideology is. Irrational debate is to tell the truth and expose the Ideology which really motivates them which is an Irrational hatred for anything Jewish, Protestant or British.

[Blue Angel]

Once more attempting to wrench this back to the real world and the actual point of the thread - the whole point of the thread was to ask what Frazer's agenda was in the original article and did people consider that it betrayed an undertone of bigotry as well as spectucularly poor understanding of the history he was discussing.

[Jim]

Clearly sheep like blueman believe it too.

[Blue Angel]

also blueman misunderstands or is blatantly ignoring the fact that those individuals who set up the provisional IRA would not have been great lovers of the Irish state in any case. Just as Frazer frequently confuses the IRA of the WW2 era and the Irish state and is unable to get his head around the idea that the two loathed each other. He just sees them all as the 'enemy' and is thus unable to think in more subtle terms about them.

[Jim]

Heh, the south treated IRA prisoners worse than the British did a fair amount of the time. had no time for them and wherent in the worlds eye.

[Blue Angel]

yep, starting with the civil war where the then newly created free state executed more IRA men than the British had in the previous War of Independence.

[blueman]

blueangel said:

yep, starting with the civil war where the then newly created free state executed more IRA men than the British had in the previous War of Independence.

I have been reading a little about the way they treated the IRA and it seemed like there was no love lost as the Irish Government seemed determined to destroy them. Coming from an Ulster perspective it is hard to believe that an Irish Nationalist Government could treat their countrymen so harshly, even worse than the British. Where exactly did that level of hatred come from. Some of the stories I have read coming from the likes of the Curragh camp are unbelievable. Funny enough we were never told all this at school. They subjected the IRA to unbelievable torture and the methods they used were disgusting to say the least. I think in one instance they tied several prisoners to a land mine before detonation killing nine. It would appear that your politics down ther is even more complicated than ours up here.

[Wasp]

On the tying prisoners to a land mine etc I wander what would have happend if everythime the security forces found terrorists with a bomb they made them sit on it, questioned them then leave them there. When they planted a bomb and no-one was caught what would the outcome be if they took a convicted bomber from prison and made him diffuse it??

[Blue Angel]

there is nothing more bitter than a civil war and the civil war coloured attitudes for generations and still does to some extent. So WASP you are suggesting the govt. use terrorism to beat terrorism - no change in other words.