Anger at loyalist grave memorial

[Wasp]

You means setanta you never heard of Lettershandowney?? Maybe you could point out that afd would know all about what happened as he would be in the know.

Anyway I am still trying to get an exact date or year for it.

[Wasp]

Well as far as darkley is concerned the ira killed 2 16 year old Catholic youths by a bomb in 1979 I think. Two more kids for there scorecard.

I think republican stratedgy is to try and win Unionists over by repeatedly telling them that there campaign was not against them or Protestants in general, just the big bad Brits. The old saying if you tell someone something often enough then they will end up believing it etc won't work with Protestants here. Republicans may fool some of us but they won't fool us all, all of the time.

Years of massacres by the ira, attempted massacres is not the thing that us dopey Prods are going to forget no matter what republicans think.

[Jim]

I'm not trying to win anyone over by saying the IRA wasnt out against protestants. I dont need to win you over that way nor do I want to win you over that way, its becoming irrelivent as we go forward and move away from those days.

I've never killed anyone in my life.

The way you talk about the IRA sometimes you'd think it was the rape of nanjing or something.

[Harry]

jim said:

The INLA was not a cover for the IRA..

er?

Its been known many times for one organistaion to accept responsibilty for the actions of another. My view is the IRA if not directly involved in the murders would of known about it hence my ref to the IRA.

[Jim]

Mate the only time the INLA and IRA have been united in something, to my knowledge anyway, was the hunger strikes.

[Wasp]

The ira opened fire on Catholic homes and blamed loyalists for doing it in an attempt to gain more support in the area. They were indeed successful because some people in the area called on the ira to come and protect them.

They didn't care about terrifying people in there homes or even worse injuring or killing someone, they just cared about being successful at their dirty tricks and helping turn people against the Protestant community.

[Jim]

I dont suppose you can back that up mate ?

Reason I'm asking is because I've read a fair few books about the IRA and have never ever heard of it, and at the minute I'm reading a very indepth (more than any book out there perhaps) about the IRA and its tricks and theres been nothing said on it.

[An Fear Dubh]

I would have to agree with Setanta, even during the Hunger Strike there were 'tensions' and the IRA and INLA were never united.

The reason that one organisation might claim responsibility for another ones actions were not because of some close relationship but because of rivalry. If an operation might be viewed locally as a 'success' then this might reflect badly on the support for the other group. So rather than lose support the tactic was to sow doubt and confusion by claiming the action as their own. Initially this would confuse, and until later on their would be doubt as to who did the action. The same sometimes if an action was 'poor', then to sow confusion one group might phone in a claim pretending to come from the other group. Both groups had 'spies', in the other group, and members did sometime leave one group and join the other (for various reasons) usually this was under threat of death if arms dumps and other information was given to the new group.

Sounds like another of Wasps 'stories' that seem devoid of facts and no corroborating facts are presented at the outset.

[Wasp]

Look I couldn't give a damm whetehr you believe this or not. This is not something I found out recently and believe me if I had links I would post them. I assure you that I am not 99% sure about this, I am 1 million % sure. As you all know not everything has links to it, but this happened and the ira were well caught out.

Perhaps afd you could ask your old comrades about it, the year I have been told was 71. But ask them in private as you know republicans in general don't like to admit any wrongdoing.

Setanta you call the story mad, well I know how republicans want proof upon proof etc, but they are not interested in proof so much when it concerns the British. Simple heresay is enough.

But the reaction of you and afd does not surprize me in the slightest because according to you both butter wouldn'tt melt in the ira's mouth. (although in fairness there has been the odd time where afd has broke the mould and admitted a little).

As I said I don't care whether you believe it or not, just in the sameway Chesney died as a result of handling nitro benzine. But you could ask McGuiness, but then again he has lied before so you can't be too sure if you could believe him.

[Wasp]

I have a problem believing it because every single Loyalist Group has always purported to be maintaining the Protestant British way of life and they were most specific about the Protestant bit.
They seem to trade the British Way for Ulster Way depending on the weather

.

Do you remeber this quote, well I know I wouldn't name the uvf members for obvious reasons, but a better example would be the current UDA commander of larne is catholic and a few weeks ago a catholic member of the UDA commited suicide. His name and photo was in the Sunday World.

I guess another myth squashed.

[Jim]

I dont know about other republicans but I always provide proof when I make accusations against the British, when asked. I've got proof for everything I say or else I dont say it as fact.

[An Fear Dubh]

I do not know it seems that Wasp has the perfect credentials to be a Diplock Judge. No real evidence is required, and hearsay, and probability was enough to convict, and the essential trait is that you are a Loyalist bigot.

I mean he seems happy that he can spew out a story that he does not know,
when it happened,
what exactly happened,
and thinks it happened in one place.
And there is no mention of it on the internet, using the vast amount of information Wasp provides.
What would he say if a nationalist started to tell tall stories. He would say their is no evidence and dismiss it. He says that when presented with facts!!

[Wasp]

I do not know it seems that Wasp has the perfect credentials to be a Diplock Judge. No real evidence is required, and hearsay, and probability was enough to convict

I could even be a republican with those credentials, like I could let people rot in jail knowing who really done it. Take what the ira done to the Brimingham six for example, but I suppose it is the British who are to blame and how many walked free from court that were as guilty as hell??? Many scum walked scot free, yet were guilty as hell. So with the amount of cover stroies, the amount of guilty tossers walking free etc then there is always the possibility that an 'innocent' person could be found guilty. But the majority of those convicted were guilty. Unless of course the ira was filled with ghosts. Did you own up to your crimes or did you deny everything??

, and the essential trait is that you are a Loyalist bigot.

Well I would rather be classed as a loyalist bigot than some hate filled sectarian bogot that was part of an organisation that commited mass murder.

I mean he seems happy that he can spew out a story that he does not know,
when it happened,
what exactly happened,
and thinks it happened in one place.

Did I say it only ever happened once? Thjis was nearly 40 years ago so an exact date is difficult especially when things didn't come to light sometime later.

And there is no mention of it on the internet, using the vast amount of information Wasp provides.
What would he say if a nationalist started to tell tall stories. He would say their is no evidence and dismiss it. He says that when presented with facts!

There are plenty of things republicans say that have no links no matter how small they are and there are plenty of links supplied as well. But don't forget alot of links that are given that go against republican theories, hearsay, propaganda, history etc etc are quickly dismissed by republicans as being flawed. Yet links supplied by republicans are meant to be concrete and flawless. You could ask curly and I am sure he will tell you the thruth, well maybe not but you could ask.

Do you have any links to your ira past and what you were involved in so we can have some factual proof or something just to prove you are telling the truth?

[Jim]

Actually yes, the British crown court didnt look at all the evidence when it came to the Birmingham six, they had the idea that these people where Irish, just arrived in England, and therefore must be part of the IRA. It took them years to finally admit that they where also wrong in doing so amonst other things. Not just the IRA in that case.

[Wasp]

Who let them rot in jail knowing fine well they didn't do it? None other than the ira or should that be i ran away. Your claim that because they were Irish is simply bollocks. Do you know how many Irish people (including those who hate the British) moved to the mainland to live using British housing, education, BENEFITS, health etc etc??? How many of these thousands were jailed in the wrong?? Unless the Birmingham six were guilty and the appeal jsut proved lack of evidence.