|
|
Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Aug 31, 2007 15:00:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Aug 31, 2007 16:59:26 GMT
here is two examples out of many of sinn feins double standards and bullshitting. The video is disgusting but hardly surprizing and it makes me want to encourage every Protestant/loyalist to go to every parade that they can to show support for the OO and the bands against the scum in the video. The second article just further cements Unionist suspicions of sinn feins double standards. You would think the way sinn fein talk about there outreach programme etc that the last 30 years have just gone away and everyone is to believe that they are genuine. This is further proof amongst other things that they are not, perhaps some individual members are but as a party the real sinn fein are once again being exposed. |
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Sept 3, 2007 20:34:09 GMT
While I understand what you are saying, you must understand it is not just the 17 year old that will always be remembered, it is ALL the things sinn fein stood for, supported and were part of concerning violence against the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community. Very few if any trust sinn fein and these stories just reaffirm our suspicians. Whne sinn fein REALLY understand this and are TRULY GENUINE then some trust may be created, but IMO not until sinn fein as a party show Unionists that they are truly sorry for there acts of violence against them.
Ok Setanta let's leave the spin and bullshiting aside, all I ask if possible is yes or no answers, if your answers are the usual republican spin then I will lose interest very quickly.
Do you condemn anyone at anytime being held hostage against there will while an attack is carried out on the Unionist community or property???
Do you condemn a policeman, who was simply a policeman who has been armed for say 20 years 24 hours a day and never fired his gun in his life etc being shot in the back of the head?
Do you condemn a similar policeman being shot unarmed infront of his wife and kids???
Do you condemn bombs going off in busy streets in mainly Unionist towns in such a way that when people run from one bomb they run straight into another??
Do you condemn the murder of a Protestant workman who was simply trying to do a days work???
Do you condemn the Shankhill bombing for example or Teebane?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2007 7:02:20 GMT
They do indeed re-affirm your suspicion Wasp but I'd also say you are looking for excuses for them to be re-affirmed, no matter what SF do you will always see them in a different light to more moderate loyalists, to republicans, and to outsiders. If SF tomorrow condemned everything the IRA done, painted union jacks on their foreheads and sang god save the queen some protestants would still be suspicious and find something to re-affirm suspicions. Thats the nature of this place and if you are surprised by some eejet climbing an orange order building then you're very easily surprised.
I'm going to answer the questions too since I'm a republican with that votes for SF, all 5 preferences, all councillors, and for an MP.
Do you condemn anyone at anytime being held hostage against there will while an attack is carried out on the Unionist community or property???
Depends who that anyone is. If it was someone with no connections to any paramilitary or military then yes.
Do you condemn a policeman, who was simply a policeman who has been armed for say 20 years 24 hours a day and never fired his gun in his life etc being shot in the back of the head?
You dont need to fire a shot to get the job done when you have the "law" on your side. Did this police men help round up hundreds of men to throw into jail for being irish? Did this police man batton civil rights protesters?
Do you condemn a similar policeman being shot unarmed infront of his wife and kids???
Yes, if its going to happen there is a time and a place for it, if only the security forces could do the same, eh?.
Do you condemn bombs going off in busy streets in mainly Unionist towns in such a way that when people run from one bomb they run straight into another??
100%.
Do you condemn the murder of a Protestant workman who was simply trying to do a days work???
100%
Do you condemn the Shankhill bombing for example or Teebane?
The shankill fish shop was being used for UDA meetings. You know the bomb went off pre-maturely, it apparently should have went off during the meeting at the dead of night, the only casualties would have been UDA members. You cant condemn "accidents", I dont condemn the idea to blow up a UDA meeting, they wouldnt have thought twice about doing the same, the nature of war mate. I dont know enough about Teebane I've not read about it, only heard things, and from what I know, yes..
I dont know the structure and relationship between OSF and the main party but I'd take what Setanta said on board about the fella being an arsey 17 year old showing off to his mates. When I was 17 I'd have done the same thing trying to act the bollocks. I'm going on 22 now and you know me well enough now to know I'd not even think about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Sept 4, 2007 17:17:52 GMT
Sorry but you are wrong here, I would love sinn fein to prove me wrong. I will always see sinn fein as a party of terrorists and supporters of terrorists but everyone can change. Moderate loyalists see them as the same if they are being honest. Now that is a wild exaggeration, if they done all that once then TBH I would be thinking what is there game now, but doing things like this would change these suspicians. I posted similar on the irish rugby anthem. Why would I be surprized?? good. So you would have condemned a family being held hostage then? Usual shite, usual republican bullshit, throwing people in h=jail for being Irish?? Batonm civil rights protestors??? So basically if he locked suspected terrorist up or was at a riot or whatever he deserves to be shot in the back of the head? Disgusting. Anyawy what if he didn't baton civil rights protestors or round up anyone for being Irish.  And how many did the securtiy forces kill? Usual shite again. Good at least we agree on something, perhaps it is something that we can buiold on and perhaps your opinion of ira attacks may change even slightly. Same as above. So you can't condemn an accident which was far from an accident. How very very sad. How can anyone fail to condemn this bomb whether they believe it was an accident or not. Nevermind how the uda would have minded or not, just answer for yourself. Just google it. But why leave it like that because the truth which apparently is much sought by republicans should be addressed. Is it because you do not want to offend or do not want to admit these things? BTW what would you expect the Irish government to do if loyalists were planting bombs etc for thirty years in the republic? Absolute bollocks, try telling that to the victims or what about the ira maps with orange and green areas? Why did the ira drive right trough nationalist towns and target Unionist ones then?? Please get real, not as a sinn feim member but as a human being. I do not claim that republicans were nearly to blame for everything, Unionist politicainas made some big mistakes but other events helped them make those wrong decisions. Nothing justified the ira s;laughter for thirty years, nothing at all no matter how you try and twist things around. OK aND WHO WAS BOMBED IN cROSSMAGLEN? The rest of your post just shows me how sinn fein are lightyears from knowing or understanding Unionist feelings. Bit better IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Sept 4, 2007 17:36:39 GMT
But why leave it like that because the truth which apparently is much sought by republicans should be addressed. Is it because you do not want to offend or do not want to admit these things? BTW what would you expect the Irish government to do if loyalists were planting bombs etc for thirty years in the republic?
Absolute bollocks, try telling that to the victims or what about the ira maps with orange and green areas? Why did the ira drive right trough nationalist towns and target Unionist ones then?? Please get real, not as a sinn feim member but as a human being.
I do not claim that republicans were nearly to blame for everything, Unionist politicainas made some big mistakes but other events helped them make those wrong decisions. Nothing justified the ira s;laughter for thirty years, nothing at all no matter how you try and twist things around.
Please don't insult my intelligence by twisting things and avoiding Unionist feeling towards the ira campaign. We need to engage but the ira need to acknowledge there fight was sectarian and wrong rather than the romance portrayed by republicans.
OK
aND WHO WAS BOMBED IN cROSSMAGLEN? The rest of your post just shows me how sinn fein are lightyears from knowing or understanding Unionist feelings.
Bit better IMO.
sO YOU CANNOT condemn it? And where exactly was the place they intended to leave the bomb if it was for nightime attack? Ira spin at its best.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Sept 4, 2007 18:01:20 GMT
BTW the word wrong is meaningless and shallow, if anyone cannot condemn the murder of innocents then why bother saying it was wrong???
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2007 18:42:13 GMT
Ignore the "modified by Jim" thing I fucked up and pressed modify instead of quote, nowt was changed  No Wasp, moderate loyalists see them with the same suspicion, they're just willing to get on with it for the better. I see the DUP with a lot of suspicion, I still think they're a party of anti-irish homophobes and are highly sectarian, but I get on with it, I accept them as they are and their place in governing. Thats not what you said. Okay Wasp, why else where they lifted then? Not one protestant was lifted during the first internment night, over the period of internment hundreds of men where lifted, the majority living in nationalist areas. Very little where actually IRA men, the where tipped off weeks before. These men, members of my own family as well with no paramilitary links, where lifted because they saw themselves as Irish and not British. There are videos of the RUC beating the living shite out of civil rights protesters, the world saw it on their televisions, dont deny it. If he didnt, and was actually a fair police man, then I'd condemn it, but he was still part of a secterian abusive institution so I'm not making excuses for it. Too many, ask the people in Ballymurphy. Go on CAIN and find out for yourself, infact I'll do it for you. British Army (BA) 296 Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) 55 Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) 8 Thats very considerable, thats not including killings done by loyalists under the directions of special branch. What you dismiss as republican shite are cold hard facts, you dont want to know though. I doubt it matey, my opinion on the IRA has changed considerably over the years, when I was younger I'd have said I dont condemn bombings, I've come to a comfortable position for myself on the IRA through lots of reading and learning, I still and always will support attacks the IRA did on british security forces. You know it was an accident, the IRA are not suicide bombers, so if it wasnt an accident why did an IRA bomber die. The target was not people, the target was the UDA, a completely legitimate target, they'd have done the same only have no reservations about killing nationalists at all. Dont take a moral high-ground with me its not needed, there is plenty I can do the same with you but I dont. There was a mention of Teebane in the book I was reading, but I cant find it. I try not and get information on the internet about bombings because they are usually written by support groups for victims or for the prisoners who done the bomb. I dont need to read any more loyalist or republican propaganda. I should make a point that it was loyalists who done the first bombings in northern ireland, in order to blame it on the IRA and rally support and membership, is that also republican shite? |
|
|
|
Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Sept 4, 2007 20:39:57 GMT
you right jim the IRA are not suicide bombers, a provie would never tie himself to a bomb, he would just tie somebody else to a bomb, kidnapp his family and tell him if he does not drive the bomb to the disignated target his family dies
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2007 21:00:16 GMT
Not the only ones without a halo. |
|
|
|
Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Sept 4, 2007 21:24:33 GMT
have i expressed any support for loyalist paramiltarys?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2007 21:45:52 GMT
Who said anything about loyalist paramilitaries? A good lot of the time they where puppets.
|
|
|
|
Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Sept 4, 2007 22:15:24 GMT
it would apper some republicans were puppets to
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Sept 4, 2007 22:38:24 GMT
They where aye. With the lovely state forces directing things from the top on both groups.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Sept 5, 2007 16:20:42 GMT
And when were the civil rights marches and what about the many years that followed. Going by your logic then republicans deserved to be shot in the back of the head if they were throwing petrol bombs, threatening life and damaging property, throwing concrete blocks to try and maim and kill etc. So if a policeman deserves mit for batoning someone then a republican deserves it for trying to maim and kill. Yet when a republican is shot during a riot or on active duty then it is republicans who greet and gurn the loudest. Pity they didn't apply the same logic concerning themselves. Glad to hear it but you are hardly in a position to talk about him being part of a sectarian institution when you support a very sectarian and evil organisation who's aim was to kill and maim as many Protestants/Unionists as they could. These are hard facts so you cannot really argue with years of proof. IMO they didn't kill enough of those who were dishing it out. How many RUC men/women were killed in cowardly attacks? Yet they only killed 55 regardless of your claims of being involved in more. And how many did the ira kill? And how many did they leave scarred for life? Your hard facts just prove my point. Oh I am not dismissing any cold hard facts, the hard facts show exactly what the security forces intentions were compared with the ira's. Considering tens of thousands of security force members who were armed for thirty odd years, facing impossible situations, seeing bloodbath after bloodbath etc, the amount they killed was far from considerable, no where near enough to even things up. Now take the ira who hid arms and didn't walk round like the security forces with a uniform and a weapon etc, when they were armed they went out to kill and maim, hope you see the difference between thousands of people armed to protect and a few hundred that tried to kill everytime they carried a weapon. Fair enough but you should stay clear of fantasy books and propoganda. No they are not they just force others to become suicide bombers like the cowardly bastards they are, or was patsy gillespie an accident? Pity it didn't go off at an ira meeting. Bullshit. IF THERE target was the uda and to attack them in the evening then why walk into the shop during the day and where on earth did they plan to plant a bomb without being noticed planting it. The excuse was a uda meeting that was meant to be taking place that night, the truth was to target the people of the Shankhill at a busytime. Cowards, scum and downright murdering bastards. What teebane is loyalist propaganda?? What a disgusting remark. Perhaps you should try a different tactic to avoid facing the truth and COLD HARD FACTS. So it is now propaganda if a loyalist/Unionist mentions teebane?? How about the fact it did happen. Agaion why don't you apply the same logic to republicans when they mention say Greysteel, bloody Sunday etc etc and put it down as republican propaganda. On teebane The Teebane victims were William Gary Bleeks (35), Cecil James Caldwell (37), Robert Dunseith (25), David Harkness (23), John Richard McConnell (38), Nigel McKee (22), Robert Irons (61) and Oswald Gilchrist (44) who died later in hospital. A Survivor speaks out after tens years of suffering below is his story. 'Everything was chaos ...blood was pouring from my eyes' - Robert O'Neill survivor 10 years on of the IRA land-mine, at Teebane, which killed eight Protestant workmen, and maimed six others, last night Robert O'Neill broke his 10-year silence. Robert O'Neill, 56, still bears the scars from the massive explosion, which ripped through the van he was travelling home in from work on Lisanelly barracks, in Omagh, in January, 1992. He vowed not to speak about the atrocity, to spare the mother of a close pal, who perished alongside him. Now, 10 years on, Mr O'Neill speaks of the moment that eight friends were blown to bits, and he suffered horrific injuries in one of the worst atrocities of the Troubles. He said: "We were coming up a bit of a hill. There was a bus just ahead of us, and as the road levelled off we were driving at about 40mph. "The next thing there was a flash, and a bang, and I felt as if I was flying through the air. "The force of the blast tore through one side of the van, killing the whole row of men who were sitting there. "I was conscious at the time - I can remember it as if it was just now. "Then I heard a thud as we dropped - that was the force of the explosion lifting the van right into the air, and us coming back down again. "I was blown through the side of the van. "Some people were still in the van, others were lying in the fields and ditches. "Everything was chaos - both my ears were perforated, and blood was pouring from my eyes. "But, I could hear squealing and men crying out from the back of the van." The attack was made all the more shocking, by the earlier lifting of the IRA threat against civilians working for the security forces. Now would you call this massacre propaganda or real cold hard facts? |
|
