SECTARIAN GAA

[Wasp]

First of all when did I say it should stop promoting Irish culture, unless of course you are saying part of Irish culture is glorifying terrorists, infringing on EU trade regulations, having rules where members must support a 32 county Ireland etc etc.

There may be no ban on Unionists but all the things are in place to keep them away, again typical double standards from republicans and the GAA.

i NEVER EVER SAID AN iRISH ORGANISATION IS ANTI-bRITISH so why are you trying to twist what I am saying. Is this another typical reepublican ploy to get away from the issue and twist things around?

You say the GAA has no control over these cups, I beg to differ. If they are serious about stamping out sectarianism then they would ban all clubs from taking part in other cups etc if they take any part in cups named after terrorists etc. Now this would be progress. In the sameway I imagine Linfield would be banned from playing Irish league football if they participated yearly in cups named after loyalist terrorists.

You have your political views just like anyone, but you are openly admitting that you want to maintain the sectarian divide, promote sectarianism and bigotry and continue with things which are highly offensive to Unionists. Fair enough but the next time you have a go about Unionists, the British, the OO etc etc just remind yourself of your own stance in supporting continued bigotry and promoting sectarianism.

[Harry]

I also don't know any Protestants that play GAA and also view the GAA body as being unwelcoming towards my community. Republicans use the word sectarian very rigidly when it comes to the GAA and i suppose thats the ways words should be used but when it comes to other instances it seems republicans are able to use contentious words with a greater sense of flexibility. If the GAA doesn't openly bar Protestants and has shown instances in the past of where a few Protestants are welcomed in then its impossible to use the word sectarian and republicans smartly know this. However it merely only further proves that crticism of anything republican isn't welcome and will be rejected outright with the whiter than white attitude that we've come to expect.

The GAA doesn't welcome people like me or people with views like mine. If i pitched up at a GAA training session sporting a Rangers jersey or anything which automatically labelled me as the other kind, i don't think i'd be warmly welcomed. I actually don't have a problem with, thats just the way it is. It just gets frustrating constantly being told how welcome WE are when really its not the case and republiucans know that but wouldn't like to banish the myths that they have created in their own heads!!

[Jim]

If you walked down the falls road in a rangers jersey you'd get the same reaction. Who would wear a football jersey to a GAA training session anyway when I played hurley no one wore football tops, at all.

Its all as secterian as our society is.

[Wasp]

You see them as terrorists, I don't. If you applied the same criteria equally in all your beliefs then you wouldn't support the British Government or Security Forces because they are just as guilty of terrorist acts as the IRA was...........

Bullshit somes up your comments here perfectly. Now the fact we see them differently as in terrorists being glorified and honoured by having cups named after them, the fact the whole Protestant/Unionist community views them as such, the fact many Catholics view them as such although many don't. DO YOU NOT think it is about time these names were dropped to show things were REALLY being done to stamp out sectarianism.

MAY infringe, but if you can find me a Hurley maker outside Ireland that can compete with native manufacturers then you MAY have a case to take to the EU, but until then, the GAA aren't infringing on anything,

I thought the Celtic tiger was booming so why worry about hurley sticks, plenty more business going on and I am sure there would be outcries if Irish jobs were affected because of other places taking the same stance as the GAA.

If a member doesn't support a 32 County Ireland they aren't going to be banned from the GAA, that's the ethos of the Association

tHEN IF IT IS OPEN to all people why have such a rule especially when they are trying to reach out to Unionists. Bit hypocritical IMO.

So we're dropping the anti-Protestant bit now are we?

Errr NO.

WASP, if you want to join the GAA I'll send you a form, introduce you around and hand you a hurley, and teach you the words to the anthem for the big games and I promise you that if anyone says anything sectarian to you and you REPORT it it will be acted on. In fact here the anthem in English so you can understand it

If you are trying to be smart then it isn't working. By now you should know that hell will freeze over before I would even think about joining as things presently stand. Infact I am taking part in educating those in my community and beyond of what exactly the rules of the GAA are and what exactly much of the GAA is about in N.Ireland.

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the morning's light,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Chorus:
Soldiers are we , whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come from a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free, No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the gap of danger
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal
'Mid cannons' roar and rifles peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's proudly floating o'er us.
We're children of a fighting race,
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march, the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Chorus

Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Inisfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silv'ry glow,
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe,
So chant a soldier's song.

I already know this song, I have it on cd and I agree with those in the republic who think the words in some lines should be changed. Bit sectarian and provocotive to say the least. BTW why did you post the words? I think you are only trying to antagonize me, unfortunately it is not working because I probably have has many rebel songs as you have and I do listen to them at times along with loyalist music and all kinds of music. I have already told you one of my favourite tunes is snipers promise, the words are alot of shite but it is a nice tune.

But if you feel the need to try and annoy me on posting songs etc then it will not work.

Unionists may not want to join because it's pro Irish Unity in it's ethos but that's THEIR choice. No one is trying to force anything on them

Then why reach out to Unionists and encourage them to join to make the sport inclusive???

Double standards? Can you name me one Unionists Culteral Organisation that is open to Nationalists or even people who aren't Protestants for that matter?

Mmm I thought the gaa was about Irish culture not republican culture, so why do you point out Unionist culture. Anyway what about Ulster-scots? The OO for example does not allow members of other faiths but other faiths are allowed to walk alongside Orangemen, other faiths are indeed invited to take part in the twelth celebrations. Take the Chinese community for example, they took part in the parade as did local actors from both religions. Catholic businessmen take part by having stalls etc in the field alongside Protestants.

Scarva is another parade which is probably my favourite. All people are invited to attend and to take part if they wish, I suppose every parade all peoples are invited to come along and enjoy the bands. Even at the parade in Loughall the grand master of Ghana took part in the parade, I suppose this could dispel myths floating about the OO and the KKK are similar.

You are saying because it isn't acceptable to Unionists because it has a Nationalist ethos that it's bigotted and therfor ant-British

.

NO you know exactly what I am saying and exactly what I mean.

Commerating a local hero isn't sectarian. You may not like it but neither do I like the fact the OO commerates Loyalist Terrorists, but I accept it as part of YOUR culture in commerating local heroes.

Commemorating murdering criminal scumbags that targeted the Unionist/Protestant community certainly is sectarian. Could you tell me the loyalist terrorists the OO commemorates. My culture BTW does not celebrate terrorists, maybe some do BUT I DON'T. So don't emphasize the YOUR by saying it is part of my culture. You glorify terrorists, I don't.

And the GAA is far far more inclusive than any Unionist Organisation, so when Unionism removes some of the barriers to their organisations and reaches the level of inclusivness the GAA has, then maybe approach the GAA with a view to including Unionists more.

Just laughable. The level of inclusiveness the GAA has is an absolute classic. You really don't have a clue what inclusiveness means now do you???

I thikn I've already said that embracing your own culture doens't automatically equate disparaging another, unless that culture can't survive without something to disparage at every public event.....
Where's the bigotry?

Haha another classic. Republicans are experts in disparging other cultures, namely loyalist/Unionist.

I've explained my position perfectly.

Yes you have, it seems you support sectarianism , promote sectarianism, promote alienating one section of the community and continuation of offending one community VIA SPORT.

But it must be easy to pick holes ........ nah, it must be easy to pontificate when you, don't support any political party, aren't a member of any organisation or any religion.

So I have to be all of these to have an opinion? Sure you are not a Catholic by any sense of the word. So I don't support any political party?? Is this because I hardly voted before? How do you know now that I don't lean towards any party or infact am not working within my community within political camps. Maybe it's an anti-agreement movement, maybe it's to do with a different stratedgy etc. But you think what you want to think.

You just get to sit on the fence and point fingers without adopting any positions of your own and claim that you aren't part of or party to anything that's remotely contraversial in your own culture.

Errrrr what exactly do you mean by that broad snipe? Do you mean because I am not in the OO? SO now one has to be in the OO to be party to it.

Let me ask you this WASP. Why are you here? You are perfectly entitled to be but why do you want to be? Is it to point score and pick holes? You certainly don't respect Republicans, as you call us scum frequently on Calton. Do you beleive I'm scum? Marcus? AFD?Earl?Jim?Shades? are we all scum?

My goodness your cage has been rattled. Obviously a Unionist pointing out sectarianism within the GAA which has strong ties with republicanism is a bit much for you to handle? Do you not like the awkward questions, the nicey nice public face being exposed for what it really is etc??

I am here to debate, I am here to put my opinions across, I am here to defend and argue the Unionist/loyalist cause, I am here to show what I believe to be right and I stand corrected when I am wrong. If I can make one republican see at least one bit of common ground with me from a Unionist perspective on 'touchy' subjects then my time on the forums will be worthwhile.

While I want to try and make a difference and understand I am not going to sit back and let republicans or anyone else dictate everything, nor am I going to let them be hypocritical and not mention it. You say I point the finger well fair enough. BUT thing is republicans in general are constantly pointing the finger so why do you have such a problem with anyone pointing the finger at republicans? Is it you don't want your PR campaign to be tainted or people to know what really lies behind the mask of reaching out etc?

Believe it or not I have respoect for each of the above mentioned. Although I would have to say I hold Jim in the same par as I hold Marcus and that is having alot of respect for them. If you want me to single each out and call them scum then I WILL NOT DO IT. Afd and myself are hardly pals and he has hardly been friendly towards me but I do respect him to an extent, I do enjoy his posts even though I may disagree with the.

Now if you want me to talk about republicans as a whole who took part in the troubles then I will say as I have said before they are cowardly scum. BUT I do accept threre were some dedicated terrorist shwo perhaps would have been against the sectarian nature of the ira.

Now as a Unionist you have made it crystal clear that you don't want me to continue with awkward questions, question the answers I get, condemn republicans, condemn the GAA etc ehile at the sametime you and others are very vocal on the OO etc. So as a mod on this site I wish to resign my mod status because I cannot and will not go along with republicans dictating what can be discussed and what can't. When the subject is sensitive then if it doesn't lie well with republicans I get accused of all sorts, yet laughably republicans can say what they wany and point the finger all the time at the British/Unionist/Protestant/loyalispeople.

If it suits you better you can ban me if I have broken the rules or if I am to outspoken for republicans then ban me. While I will miss the site I will accept it.

[blueman]

Let them ban away but we will not be silenced on these issues. The Sectarian bias within Ireland is there for all to see. Every fabric of Irish society is ruled and dominated by their religion and the GAA is no different. The reality of their State is that they don't want a Protestant about the place and the GAA is a mirror image of the attitudes within that State. When in Rome do as the Romans do but we are not Romans and refuse to bow down to Rome so there is no place for us in Ireland.

Their National Anthem is a National disgrace and it amuses me when I read the words 'Sons of the Gael' as the recent DNA tests in Ireland show that very few of them are Celts at all, but their DNA proves that they nearly all come from English stock. The Irish Roman Catholic Gaelic Super State that they are presently trying to create is a nightmare in waiting for Protestants and the many, many,ordinary, decent Roman Catholics who want nothing to do with it.

[Blue Angel]

i am not italian so i am not likely to be roman I am part spanish if that helps you along as you can always lump me in with the inquistion if it gives you any pleasure!

more ramblings from the fantastical dream world of blueman, now jk rowling seems to have finished with harry potter there is a gap in the market for a good fantasy writer... (not that she is a good writer but that's a topic for elsewhere)

[bearhunter]

"Their National Anthem is a National disgrace"
Go on then I'll bite. Which bit is a disgrace. I reckon I know which line you will isolate, but I just want you to make a complete gobshite out of yourself, rather than me doing it for you.

[Harry]

jim said:

If you walked down the falls road in a rangers jersey you'd get the same reaction. Who would wear a football jersey to a GAA training session anyway when I played hurley no one wore football tops, at all.

Its all as secterian as our society is.

So Jim, or anyone else.......Do you really believe that i would be welcome within the GAA??? From Harryville in Ballymena, supporter of the OO and the loyalist parades, supporter of the Union and hater of the IRA and everything they did?? Would i really be welcome?? Come on, enough of the bullshit.....I wouldn't stand a chance. Yeah they might welcome Prods with no political opinions but these Prods don't represent a fraction of my community as most would be of the same views as me. Lets not bury our heads in the sand, the GAA doesn't want peoplel ike me or anyone like me and never will.

[Wasp]

What along post to reply to so I will try my best.

First of all as far as living side by side I fully agree it is better to include not exclude, so you are contradicting yourself by continuing to support cups named after terrorists. Now as usual you mention the OO, so again I will say the OO is a religious order NOT a sporting body. Sport is meant for all not just some, a religious order however is completely different. How many Portestants can join the 200 odd Catholic organisations which are based on religion. Not one. So your arguement is pointless and stupid, but if let's you have a dig at the OO feel free.

You are trying to twist things around without facing reality and accepting the GAA is sectarian. As far as cups are concerned the GAA could still ban any team from their tournaments that promote sectarianism and bigotry, the fact they have not done this shows that they are talking behind a veiled mask trying to claim outreach. GAA is a sporting body with a political stance, I accept that but in modern times don't you think even the backward GAA could move forward and at least make some moves to be more inclusive to both peoples on this island?

The OO before you say otherwise is open for all to take part, but to join it is a religious organisation. I hope you understand the difference between a sporting body with a religious body. But then again if you think it helps your debate then go ahead but personnally I find it laughable to compare the two. Now if you want to include sport as part of our culture then you will find rugby, cricket and football etc is very inclusive afterall they are sports and that is what true sport is meant to be.

On the labelling scum you yourself have travelled to be offended at, where you shouted abuse at those marching. Now does this mean you have the same view of Harry who also supports the OO? Do you see what I am getting at? Oh on my Calton brethern I don't know what republican sites you visit but you could apply the same when you are singing your rebel songs along with your comrades. Again if I think those involved in the topic such as the ira then I will say they are scum, you won't dictate to me what I say here or anywhere. Funny now you have to bring Calton into it when on our previous site I refferred to the ira and all those who supported it as cowardly murdering bastards. I stand by that but that doesn't mean I am singling one person out to personnally insult them.

On the security forces being compared to terrorists well it's hardly worth a comment. Just the usual republican crap to try and justify there actions and to take the bad look off them. The vast majority of the securtiy forces on the otherhand tried to preserve life not destroy it, although they should have done alot more.

Your comment on debating the OO is you trying to craftily avoid your blatant double standards. You can go on about them all you want but hey as soon as the GAA is shown for what it really is in the north you don't like it one bit.

On my resignation you can accuse me of being melodramatic or applying for a shakespearian play all you want. THE FACT is you don't like a Unionist speaking out of turn or being too outspoken yet the ethos of this site was for more outspoken people to be given the chance to air their views. But with me you bring Calton into your attack on me, what has calton or anyother site got to do with here?

Sorry to break your heart etc but I didn't think you had such feelings for me. Anyway enough of the sarcasm from me, I want to withdraw my admin status but I will continue to post here as long as the goalposts don't keep getting moved to suit republican agewnda.

BTW what do you think of a cup for under 11's being named after two terrorists???

[Harry]

I think what WASP says elsewhere can't be used against him here. Especially ref Calton......thats why i was banned from there because of what was said on another site and the person involved only brought up certain posts which they knew would make me look bad if the rest of the thread wasn't read. So i'd rather we judge people solely on what they do here, of course whats said elsewhere will help form opinions but its not acceptable in my eyes to throw things at Wasp that haven't happened here. WASP do what you feel is right but don't throw the teddy out, bare with it and stick by your guns Its hard to change opinions that are forged through life experiences no matter what facts or figures are seen.

I think its great you and Setanta and others going at it like cat and dog. Blueman has spiced it up and ruffled a few feathers and he also has his right to express his views just like everyone else. The heated debates that are going on is exactly why we set this place up so as long as we don't result to personal insults or childish arguements, things are grand ;D ;D

[Wasp]

Harry it is honestly not a case of throwing out the teddy, it is for me a case of pointing out the blatant double standards. Now we have heard thread after thread on everything sectarian about loyalism and Unionism. When the shoe is on the other foot with facts just look at the reaction.

Notice the way some side step parts of posts and try to twist them around and ignore key points of posts. This I can fully accept because if people want to ignore or sidestep issues then fair enough, but when it comes to demanding answers on everypoint from Unionists republicans are very vocal. Yet not so vocal when they choose to ignore parts of posts. Not all BTW but some.

I am not going to sit back and not point out the double standards or the hypocricy, nor am I going to let them sit behind a wee veil or mask without pointing it out. They have plenty to say on everything orange so at least they can take the same when things are pointed out to them. With that mindset how can you even continue debating unless of course it is in line with the republican agenda.

At least setanta eventually tried to answer my points but sadly he needed to bring elsewhere into it. Perhaps this is out of the wee green book to attempt to ridicule the enemy.

[Blue Angel]

I have to say I agree with Harry on the point about let's not drag all sorts of quotes from different sites onto this one. As he says it would be easy to cherry pick bits and pieces to produce all sorts of results. Also much as WASP makes me jump up and down at times if we are all just nodding our heads and agreeing the site is not working - as was pointed out so long as we don't get down to childish bigotry or personal insults it's ok, democracy means WASP is free to say something I don't agree with and I am free to disagree with him back. Having said that it would be bad if WASP stepped down as admin as we need more and not less unionists here and more people generally to broaden the debate. There have been some instances lately when i feel debate has spilled over into bigotry but that is a seperate issue.

[Wasp]

I don't have much arguement there Blue angel although try not to jump so much, do what I do fire the computer across the room. This is my 8th computer in the last two days. lol

[Republic]

Like I said earlier, the GAA is anti-unionist, not anti-Protestant.
I cannot see why people cant make such a simple distinction.

WASP, Blues Bros:
The GAA is not against Protestants. It is an accident of religion that unionists are typically Protestant and nationalists are usually catholic. The GAA would still be anti-unionist even if all nationalists were protestants.

Now you can make a case that members of the GAA are anti-Protestant, and tbh I would not be surprised if that was the case in NI- there is plenty of hatred to go around and I have no reason to suspect that some nationalists are not hate-filled.

But the organisation as a whole is not based on religion.
I am not a fan of the GAA due mainly to its politicisation of sport, but I can still see that it is not based on religion.
Why cant you guys see that?

Setanta.
the GAA is a nationalist organisation, a 32 county organisation. Its very structure and ethos is opposed to unionism. Can you not see how it is anti-unionist? It is an Irish nationalist movement and therefore is diametrically opposed to unionism.

It quite clearly is anti-unionist.

Telling unionists to join is an insult. You would never allow Ireland to take part in the Commonwealth Games or a British Isles sports tournament where the trophy was named after a British public figure eg The Queen, Churchill, Cromwell etc.
You would argue that it is against everything you stand for.

people like yourself to demand the GAA change the name of the cup, or ban the teams who compete, even though you will never ever play Gaelic Games,

You directed this at WASP, but you know the GAA is not politically neutral, and so cannot ever be open to unionists. Lack of participation prevents unionists from changing the GAA from within, so they can only protest from the outside. Its not hypocrisy, its their only choice. Joining a nationalist organisation is not a viable choice for a unionist.

Harry said:

o Jim, or anyone else.......Do you really believe that i would be welcome within the GAA??? From Harryville in Ballymena, supporter of the OO and the loyalist parades, supporter of the Union and hater of the IRA and everything they did?? Would i really be welcome?? Come on, enough of the bullshit.....I wouldn't stand a chance. Yeah they might welcome Prods with no political opinions but these Prods don't represent a fraction of my community as most would be of the same views as me. Lets not bury our heads in the sand, the GAA doesn't want peoplel ike me or anyone like me and never will.

And he has hit the nail on the head. Non-unionist prods, or non-unionist anyone, is welcome to join. But unionists are not. (Im referring solely to NI here, I dont know about the south- I'd like to think unionists could join if they wanted to, but im not sure.)

In any case, even if unionists are welcomed, it is still a non-starter because no unionists will join a nationalist organisation.

Setanta wrote

you could tell me the GAA rule that PROHIBITS people from joining IS..............................?

Or I could point you to the history, ethos and aims of the GAA, which prohibits unionists from joining.
Its not so much a criticism, but an obvious observation.

[Wasp]

Republic that is a fair and reasonable post. On the Protestant issue, on paper in the north it is not anti-Protestant but in reality it is. Take the Protestant player who broke all barriers by playing for a Catholic school and has a kid brought up in the Catholic faith. Look at the treatment he received.

When you have lived in a country that has seen Portestants etnically cleansed as were Catholics, where republicans targeted mainly Protestant towns then you will soon realize the sectarianism of the ira, same for loyalist paramilitaries. Then add that to cups for under 11's etc named after terrorists who targeted the Protestant community you should soon realize how anti- Protestant the GAA is in N.Ireland.

Now how can one man claim to want to stamp out sectarianism when he attended the opening of a ground named after a terrorist. Shouldn't this same man now be calling for such names and cups etc to be scrapped otherwise these clubs can no longer participate in GAA tournaments.

That IMO would be movement and progress.