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Post by Jim on Jul 24, 2007 17:52:44 GMT
Is that stadium suppose to be the new antrim grounds instead of casement park or whats the craic, what GAA matches would actually be played there?
So its looking like the GAA prefere the maze, rugby authorities prefere belfast and the IFA dont give a shite.
I say fair play to poots so far, he's not afraid to go against the party line on a project thats going to cost millions.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Jul 25, 2007 11:05:03 GMT
I think what the GAA said was that any of the proposals for Belfast would not meet their needs or words to that effect. Thus leaving the Maze as the only proposal.
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Post by bluedog on Jul 27, 2007 21:36:46 GMT
Why not do what David Ervine said and level the place,that is if you really want to move on.You cant glorify the Provos at the Maze and then complain about a loyalist bannerette at the 12th Parade in Belfast.Mr Poots can shove his stadium/shrine up his arse that is if he can get his head out first.
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Post by Jim on Jul 28, 2007 0:40:59 GMT
I suppose the Germans still glorify the Soviets by keeping parts of the Berlin Wall up.
No ones glorifying anything, the proposal is for a museum, for those who arent from here to see the thing with their own eyes instead of reading about the troubles in a book.
The idea that this is to glorify republicans is a myth spread around by unionists like yourself because you cant find a better reason to forget the history of your wee country.
Besides, I reckon it would make a nice penny.
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Post by bluedog on Jul 28, 2007 19:33:42 GMT
I suppose the Germans still glorify the Soviets by keeping parts of the Berlin Wall up. No ones glorifying anything, the proposal is for a museum, for those who arent from here to see the thing with their own eyes instead of reading about the troubles in a book. The idea that this is to glorify republicans is a myth spread around by unionists like yourself because you cant find a better reason to forget the history of your wee country. Besides, I reckon it would make a nice penny. Have your museum somewhere else.Why do you want it at Long Kesh?Just because Sands and others were talked into starving themselves their?Its hardly something to shout about to the rest of the world is it?These men were used the same way Paisley has abused our people.The hungerstrikers were used as political pawns with others advancing their political careers on their backs ,a familiar story indeed.Long Kesh was not the centre of the troubles.Why not have it close to La Mon were your freedom fighters burnt members of a dog club to death,or would that be a bit embarassing.If you want a museum for Provos have it in west belfast or take it down to Dublin,we dont want it here.Better still maybe Big Ian will let you have it in his now empty church,or there could be premises available in Magherafelt soon  |
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Post by Jim on Jul 28, 2007 20:00:40 GMT
Why not have it at long kesh? Many loyalists and republicans where in prison there, republicans went on hungerstrike there, loyalists attempted blanket protests there.
Thats like saying why keep Sachsenhausen up and running.
Its not just about Sands, like I said, its no shrine, if republicans want to commemorate and enshrine the hunger strikers then they can do so elsewhere, its done every year anyway all over the country and im completely against the idea of this being a shrine in any way! a tourist attraction, yes, somewhere for people interested in the history of this country, yes, a shrine, no. and no shrine has been proposed, so stop taking it out of proportion and labeling it what you feel like.
Who dont want it here? There we go with the whole "our wee country" mentality again! As far as I remember, nationalists make up half the population here, "we" doesnt exist when it comes to this.
Besides, if they are going to build this stadium out in the middle of no where, they may get as many things that generate revenue as they can, or we'll be looking at a millenium dome style disaster, closed after a year and 5 years to be reopened and privatised.
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Post by Wasp on Jul 28, 2007 20:22:44 GMT
Jim republicans keep on about nationalists being half the population. So are you saying every Catholic is a nationalist? If you are you are wrong and are you saying that half the population want the museum at long kesh? I think bluedog hit the nail on the head by suggestiong ls mon or I would also suggest Enniskillen among other places rather than the place where terrorist chose to commit suicide by starving themselves. The victims and a place of their death should stand for a museum rather than those that belonged to organisations that put the true victims in their graves. For tourists they could see the real side of the violence rather than the terrorist side.
Google many of the victims and you will get very few results, but google a terrorist and wahey loads of results. Isn't it about time victims were put first instead of dead terrorists and their supporters? Isn't about time in our alledged new future together that innocent victims from all sides will be remembered, put first above all others rather than continuing along the path of glorifying terrorists/remembering the terrorists and giving them the focus rather than their victims.
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Post by bluedog on Jul 28, 2007 20:29:45 GMT
Why not have it at long kesh? Many loyalists and republicans where in prison there, republicans went on hungerstrike there, loyalists attempted blanket protests there. Thats like saying why keep Sachsenhausen up and running. Its not just about Sands, like I said, its no shrine, if republicans want to commemorate and enshrine the hunger strikers then they can do so elsewhere, its done every year anyway all over the country and im completely against the idea of this being a shrine in any way! a tourist attraction, yes, somewhere for people interested in the history of this country, yes, a shrine, no. and no shrine has been proposed, so stop taking it out of proportion and labeling it what you feel like. Who dont want it here? There we go with the whole "our wee country" mentality again! As far as I remember, nationalists make up half the population here, "we" doesnt exist when it comes to this. Besides, if they are going to build this stadium out in the middle of no where, they may get as many things that generate revenue as they can, or we'll be looking at a millenium dome style disaster, closed after a year and 5 years to be reopened and privatised. Firstly loyalists don't want anything at the Maze,many mens lives were ruined by being in the Maze its not something we want to be reminded of.As usual those that were unaffected by the troubles have some romantic notion of Long Kesh.Level it forget it and move on. As for the stadium it does'nt take a brain surgeon to know that a stadium at the Maze is financially unsustainable with or without "Bobbys shrine" and that is how a sizeable portion of this community will always view it.For years Republicans told us to keep politics out of sport especially football and rightly so,now you want to place it at the heart of a National Stadium.No thanks. |
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Post by Jim on Jul 28, 2007 21:27:17 GMT
Jim republicans keep on about nationalists being half the population. So are you saying every Catholic is a nationalist? If you are you are wrong and are you saying that half the population want the museum at long kesh? I think bluedog hit the nail on the head by suggestiong ls mon or I would also suggest Enniskillen among other places rather than the place where terrorist chose to commit suicide by starving themselves. The victims and a place of their death should stand for a museum rather than those that belonged to organisations that put the true victims in their graves. For tourists they could see the real side of the violence rather than the terrorist side. Google many of the victims and you will get very few results, but google a terrorist and wahey loads of results. Isn't it about time victims were put first instead of dead terrorists and their supporters? Isn't about time in our alledged new future together that innocent victims from all sides will be remembered, put first above all others rather than continuing along the path of glorifying terrorists/remembering the terrorists and giving them the focus rather than their victims. Are you saying every protestant is a unionist then? A huge chunk of people voted for Sinn Fein and the SDLP, aswell as the DUP and the UUP and it almost does come down to 50/50 in the end, I think that says enough for me. He didnt hit anything on the head, we arent talking about shrines or commemorations, there are many of those already and I agree we should have places to commemorate those who have died, but we arent talking about that at the minute! its unrelated! we're talking about somewhere for foreigners to learn about the troubles and the conditions of the h blocks, what the prisoners did inside the cells, what they ate, slept on, its a centre for education on the conflict, as many people have a genuine interest. Not a shrine and not a commemoration to anyone. You can keep on thinking its about glorification, in the end you will be proven wrong. |
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Post by Jim on Jul 28, 2007 21:28:34 GMT
Why not have it at long kesh? Many loyalists and republicans where in prison there, republicans went on hungerstrike there, loyalists attempted blanket protests there. Thats like saying why keep Sachsenhausen up and running. Its not just about Sands, like I said, its no shrine, if republicans want to commemorate and enshrine the hunger strikers then they can do so elsewhere, its done every year anyway all over the country and im completely against the idea of this being a shrine in any way! a tourist attraction, yes, somewhere for people interested in the history of this country, yes, a shrine, no. and no shrine has been proposed, so stop taking it out of proportion and labeling it what you feel like. Who dont want it here? There we go with the whole "our wee country" mentality again! As far as I remember, nationalists make up half the population here, "we" doesnt exist when it comes to this. Besides, if they are going to build this stadium out in the middle of no where, they may get as many things that generate revenue as they can, or we'll be looking at a millenium dome style disaster, closed after a year and 5 years to be reopened and privatised. Firstly loyalists don't want anything at the Maze,many mens lives were ruined by being in the Maze its not something we want to be reminded of.As usual those that were unaffected by the troubles have some romantic notion of Long Kesh.Level it forget it and move on. As for the stadium it does'nt take a brain surgeon to know that a stadium at the Maze is financially unsustainable with or without "Bobbys shrine" and that is how a sizeable portion of this community will always view it.For years Republicans told us to keep politics out of sport especially football and rightly so,now you want to place it at the heart of a National Stadium.No thanks. I just dont agree with your first paragraph, im sorry you feel that way. |
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Post by Wasp on Jul 29, 2007 16:11:26 GMT
If it's about educating foreinors about the troubles and this includes the h blocks why not have it in the middle of Belfast, a city that was bombed for thirty odd years, filled with division, years of rioting, the political centre for N.Ireland with stormont etc etc. With the seap port and airport in the city foreginors will only be a walk away from such a place.
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Post by Jim on Jul 29, 2007 17:43:20 GMT
Well with that mindset maybe Germany should close Sachsenhausen since its on the very outskirts of Berlin, and believe me its a lot farther out than the maze is to Belfast! Took us an hour and a half to get to it by train and walking. Come on WASP, Belfast city center isnt very big and a new center for learning about the conflict set up in the city doesnt sound nearly as appealing as visiting the actual H block prisons to a foreigner. Most dont want to just hear about it, they want to see it. Picture the hordes of American tourists with cameras and star spangled banner hats with cheesy tshirts and shorts on a pissy rainy day, going out the the H blocks then to the stadium to empty their pockets |
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Post by bluedog on Jul 29, 2007 20:11:10 GMT
Well with that mindset maybe Germany should close Sachsenhausen since its on the very outskirts of Berlin, and believe me its a lot farther out than the maze is to Belfast! Took us an hour and a half to get to it by train and walking. Come on WASP, Belfast city center isnt very big and a new center for learning about the conflict set up in the city doesnt sound nearly as appealing as visiting the actual H block prisons to a foreigner. Most dont want to just hear about it, they want to see it. Picture the hordes of American tourists with cameras and star spangled banner hats with cheesy tshirts and shorts on a pissy rainy day, going out the the H blocks then to the stadium to empty their pockets What tripe,if thats your argument its a joke.To reduce 3 decades of mayhem and madness to a joke sideshow defies belief.Its similar to the actions of Paisley and his buddy Marty.I can see how victims are extremely angry at the current fiasco. |
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Post by Jim on Jul 29, 2007 20:39:10 GMT
And I can see how the majority of us accept it. You know, democracy and all that. Or does "majority rules" only apply when you want it too?
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Post by bluedog on Jul 29, 2007 21:26:13 GMT
And I can see how the majority of us accept it. You know, democracy and all that. Or does "majority rules" only apply when you want it too? If you want a majority to back your shrine proposals you will not get it.The football fans reject it,the rugby authorities don't want it and the GAA will scarcely use it at all.So were exactly is the democracy in this.We must have it cos you "Sands worshipers" want it ,wise up.I would'nt worry if I were you though ,democracy has never got in the way of the everlasting moderator or Marty the spy so I'm sure big Ian will have a word in large lugs ear on your behalf. |
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