Loyalists picket GAA team

[Jim]

wasp said:

Jim whether the points are hypothetical or not, whether loyalists have heroes or not, my questions were not to judge or weigh up the facts among the questions. I simply asked if it was the other way around, imagine if it was and answer the points then. I don't care what Billy Wright was, what he played etc, I used him as an example. It is not a case of Irish phobia, it is a case of where some try to say it is inclusive and doesn't discriminate when it certainly does.

Setanta if it is to celebrate their culture and their culture involves commemorating terrorists and is strongly linked with promoting republicanism, then how can you say it is inclusive and doesn't discriminate.

I used soccer as an example. Ok if Unionisim had a sport that promoted loyalism and commemorated loyalist terrorists, had the samepoints as the GAA but only from a loyalist perspective such as promoting N.Ireland remaining in the union etc, could I or any Unionist claim that this sport does not discriminate and is inclusive and open to all??

It does matter if its hypothetical though because you are comparing reality to fiction, or supposed reality.

Why should it matter that the GAA fly a tricolour? They are an irish association, we dont whinge when teams on the mainland fly union jacks at cricket matches or rugby matches or soccer matches. The flag of the irish nationstate is the tricolour, half of the population of the north identify with the tricolour, I see no problem there. I see it as whinging for an excuse to whinge.

There probably are a few dodgy bits within the GAA and as far as I can see it seems to be in the north, not the south, where its relevant. Obviously republicans (who largely support the GAA) will harp on about dead paramilitaries and they will introduce it to sport, because believe it or not sport and politics are mixed and always will be mixed. That does not mean you can sit back and call the GAA a secterian organisation, you can call certain branches secterian if you want but as far as I know the majority of the GAA while it may be a bit nationalist, its by no means secterian, the fact that they've been hosting other sports with the old historic enemy, England in Croke park says enough. IF they where truely anti-british anti-english and even anti-orange they would have listened to republican sinn fein who where even picketing the match.

The fact is there isnt a sport where loyalists commemorate each other, protestants have and do play the GAA, they compete in the GAA, and probably the biggest reason there arent a lot of protestants is because island wide there are more catholics then protestants. Its like asking why would there be more christian footballers over muslim footballers in England.

[Wasp]

Jim the fact remains that I asked if it was the other way around. I have no problem with the GAA flying the tricolour or promoting Irish culture etc. But when some condemn Unionist/loyalists of discriminating or not being inclusive or whatever then they should take a good look at their own doorstep, especially when they claim a sporting body is inclusive and doesn't discriminate.

You can say it's comparing reality to fiction etc, but the point of the matter is WHAT IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND. It's as simple as that. Unionists have been asked 'WHAT IF' on many occasions, so why can Unionists not ask the same 'WHAT IF'?

[Jim]

We condemn the orange order for being an exclusive organisation and we condemn its antics when it comes to marching season, thats a big difference from a sport man.

[Harry]

I personally don't see the GAA as sectarian as it allows Protestants to play and it doesn't seem to run or be ruled on religious grounds so for me that puts the word sectarian to bed- full stop.

These are all my own views so i may be well off the mark.

The GAA promotes the Irish culture, the GAA supports the removal of british control over the North of Ireland, many within the GAA would of been actively involved in the republican struggle or would of at least been sympathisers, no doubt some funds would of been raised for the IRA or its sister organisations through various GAA related fund raising evenings. The GAA were aginst any members of the security forces ever participating in its games, the GAA only narrowly voted to open up croke park to other sports as there is still alot of prejudice against the so called 'english sports' .

None of this gives me the right to label the GAA sectarian but it sures as hell makes me feel like i would never be welcome or would never want to be any part of it ever. Its not this all inclusive body that its being portrayed to be by some here.

[An Fear Dubh]

It is obvious that the GAA still has a lot of work to do. To bring the GAA to a point where people like Harry might feel welcome. And there are a lot of myths still floating about that need to be dis-spelled.

I am an active GAA member, I am a republican, I do not stop being a republican when I enter a sports arena. But I do not talk about politics, I talk about sport.

Trying to get money out of the GAA for anything is very difficult. And during the years, I can not remember one free donation, or money raising event. The best I ever recall was the use of facilities at a discounted rate on a commercial rental basis. And there were penalty clauses if the bar takings did not surpass the usual intake. This was at local level, forget about anything above that, it just did not happen.

Given that the British Army were used as the blunt instrument to surpress Irish nationalism the GAA found itself in the front line. Non dual members were murdered, and harressed. During the 'troubles' GAA members were killed, helecopters were landed on pitches during matches, grounds were confiscated without finacial redress. So how could there be civil relations and inter-sports matches between GAA members and 'British Crown Forces'. Hence the rule, barring them.

The political climate has changed and so has the GAA in recognition of that change. Yes I voted against that change, but I am happy to abide by the decision. And if the truth be told I am half glad that others were more foresighted than I was, and the time was right to make that move.

I still have reservations for sporting reasons as to sharing our headquarters with other sports. Regardless of the national politics aspect.

But for me the GAA is about involving children in sport. Especially where they might be tempted at a later stage to become involved in anti-social activities, and the drug culture. By channelling their energies at the 7-13yr age, might create a different social climate for them. So that they will develop into good community members rather than burdens on the community.

What I would want to see is people like Harry set up their own club in their own community. Where the members would be loyalists, security forces or whatever they wanted. And he would find the network of the GAA a very support group.

I think there may come a point that the GAA will stretch their remit to cover soccer and maybe rugby, so long as the older elements of the GAA can feel it is not to their detriment. In the meantime we offer the olive branch of our national stadium. And the network of support will put their shoulder to the wheel if anyone within a Loyalist community can step over the fear barrier and want to set up their own club. The President of the GAA has made a similiar offer.

[An Fear Dubh]

The decision by Unionists to picket these boys is similar in nature to the picket on the Holy Child girls school in Belfast. And I also note that one of the leading members of the picket is a known sectarian thug who was banned for his behaviour at local soccer matches from all grounds.

[Wasp]

anfeardubh said:

The decision by Unionists to picket these boys is similar in nature to the picket on the Holy Child girls school in Belfast. And I also note that one of the leading members of the picket is a known sectarian thug who was banned for his behaviour at local soccer matches from all grounds.

You would compare something like that now wouldn't you. I would compare it with protests against loyalists/unionists promoting there culture such as OO marches.

[An Fear Dubh]

Are you saying the Orange Order are school boys??

[Wasp]

Well the junior members are.

[An Fear Dubh]

Grown Loyalist men picketing young boys, seems a lot more like grown loyalist men picketing girls at Holy Cross school, I am sure you are proud of them!

- than local residents picketing Orange Order men.

[Wasp]

Oh so now you are sure I am proud of them. Mmm are you mystic meg?

Perhaps before you point the finger you should look at the things that you are proud of concerning your political viewpoints and the things done in an attempt to reach your political viewpoints. I think you are proud of grown men and women blowing men, women, children and babies to bits. Or without being so graphic you perhaps are proud of grown men beating children to near death, causing children to commit suicide or perhaps grown men dragging a defenseless mother less than 5ft tall from her home in front of her children and then executing her. These same grown men burying her body amd adding her to their list of the disappeared.

Or you could think on the many children who's fathers were shot in front of them, or watched their fathers start their car and being blew up etc. Perhaps my emotions are doing my thinking now, but when it comes to your opinions about loyalist pickets then its fine and understandable, but when its from a Unionist/loyalist they just want to stay in the past or they are letting their emotions answer for them according to you.

And you are complaining about a picket??

Yet you complain of grown men picketing young boys. Could I ask what young boys are you talking about?

[Harry]

I think AFD we have found a parallel for us both or a complete vice versa if you like. You and your views of sectarainsim at windsor and me and the GAA. ;D

I would never even consider having anything to do with the GAA, i wouldn't go out of my way to stop them doing anything but i sure as hell wouldn't do anything to support them. You have experience of the GAA and talk about how Loyalists should setup teams etc and i think to myself....not a chance, we would be shunned,attacked, be the kicking boys or the team that everyone wanted to hate and despised!!!

Likewise i think more nationalists should support NI and not be afraid to show it, you have different views and feel most likely the way i do about the GAA

[Harry]

Protestants but not actual Loyalists. People who actively oppose Republicanism, people who actively support British rule in NI, people who are members of Loyalist flute bands etc, you think we would be welcome in the GAA

If you want token Protestants then just say

[Harry]

setanta said:

Well then I'm inviting you to my Club and you can judge for yourself.
Or if you prefer I'll get you tickets for an Antrim Hurling game and you can see what you think.

Cheers bud but i'd get hung up by the neck round Harryville if i went to any GAA associated games ;D

Still a neutral venue and you and can tell me about how great the GAA is while i pretend i'm listening when really i'm just enjoying my pint and making sure you get the next round in ;D

[Harry]

setanta said:

Like Carsons old gaff that's now a hotel and nightclub?

The invites open to you to WASP. Cheap beer in the Clibs as well!
Now don't be complaining about the GAA if it's a fear of getting tarred and feathered in Harryville that's stopping you going!

I've still got to remember what i am buddy and altough i'm more than willing to listen and even break from standard Loyalist attitude, somethings its still to early for

Carsons gaff it is then Me and WASP will be there in force. ;D