statue farce

[Harry]

shades40 said:

Considering how flags have to used to specifically intimidate people they should all be banned, in Lurgan Unionists have flags up everywhere all year round, Nationalist areas have them up once a year, if a Nationalist is seen by the police putting a flag on a lamp post he is arrested on the other hand the police help Unionists erect them, why the difference? this caused a serious row last year, as for Massey isn't he the saint of farmers? he sounds ok to me.

Depends where you go shades and its certainly vice versa in Ballymena. Dunclug has numerous Tricolors flying and it has a good few Unionists live there altough alot have been petrol bombed out of late. Agreement was reached through the Harryville Ulster Scots that a UDA mural and various other Loyalist murals and flags be removed from around the Harryville area in return for a reduction in Tricolors at the top of the town. Republicans have completed reverted on their word and have erected many tricolors.

[Wasp]

Very true Harry, you just have to go up the Cushendal road to see these tri-colours flying. Anyway there is a street in Harryville called Casement st so maybe it should be renamed as it has the same name as a certain other Casement.

Now obviously I am joking here but I am just trying to point out the pettiness here such as those who would not goto Windsor Park because of the name, those searching the internet to see if they would be offended etc. The whole thing is ridiculous and is making us look stupid and childish.

If I lived elsewhere my immediate reaction to this would be that I thought they were all soted now and living in peace, but the hatred is still there and it probably won't be long till they are fighting again.

The Limavady area has been hit several times recently with job losses, one would think this would be the priority of elected reps.

[tp]

The Limavady area has been hit several times recently with job losses, one would think this would be the priority of elected reps.

You would think that is what they should be trying to deal with but it must be so difficult for them when they are looking out for their own self interests most of the time, to deal with what they should be dealing with!!!!

[Jim]

wasp said:

Now obviously I am joking here but I am just trying to point out the pettiness here such as those who would not goto Windsor Park because of the name, those searching the internet to see if they would be offended etc.

I'd not go to Windsor park because I dont feel welcome, I'd be a token taig, and i hate linfield

[Wasp]

Jim why wouldn't you feel welcome, nobody is going to go look he's a Catholic etc. One of my first times in Windsor Park was with a Catholic family. Not that this matters because I had no idea or interest as to what religion they were. I think it was an England match. There was nothing more to it so I don't understand why you wouldn't feel welcome.

Ive no interest in football here but I hate to see Cliftonville win lol. Nah in all seriousness I couldn't really care about football here although I have a soft spot for a few teams.

[Jim]

When I watch NI play on TV you see more union jacks in the crowd than you do at an England match, right, i'm not going to say they shouldn't be waving them around, not even my point, but it still makes it feel like the team and the support has nothing to do with me or the part of the city I grew up. I watch them in the pub and support them because it would be stupid not too, but I'd not go to Windsor park for it, the place is a pissy excuse for a national stadium anyway, sooner they build the new one the better, maybe I'll go to my first NI match.

The linfield thing is the more important reason, can't stand them. I'd not go watch ROI or NI if they played at the swamp (old trafford) either

[earl]

As I had said on the previous thread, if there is a statue of a local historic personality, and this person is known for non-infamous reasons, then this should be taken into consideration. I think SF are being extremely petty and small-minded in this instance. The guy being a Unionist is not enough for it to be regarded as offensive. There is a genuine issue of lack of equal representation within the echelons of NI government, but SF are not handling this in a very progressive manner. I believe that council chambers should be made as neutral as possible, with everyone's approval and assistance, and in the case of historic symbols being in such places, some kind of compromise from both sides could be worked out. Common sense needs to be practised more from all involved, instead of getting offended by default and then everyone starts to get worked up.

[Wasp]

How would everyone feel if all republican monuments were removed along with all loyalist monuments from towns and villages right across N.I no matter whether or not they are in housing areas or out in full public view?

Then all sides sit down and present there case for whichever monuments they want to be part of there identity etc. If no agreement can be reached then no republican/loyalist monument is allowed.

Just a thought.

[earl]

wasp said:

How would everyone feel if all republican monuments were removed along with all loyalist monuments from towns and villages right across N.I no matter whether or not they are in housing areas or out in full public view?

Then all sides sit down and present there case for whichever monuments they want to be part of there identity etc. If no agreement can be reached then no republican/loyalist monument is allowed.

Just a thought.

It's too reasonable a suggestion for it to ever get off the ground in NI! This wouldn't be possible though. It's a matter that's deeper than just having statues or whatever up though. It's about both communities learning to live with each other, about common sense and about not being offended by everything from the other community. One way to help things is to discuss them openly and in a logical manner. I feel that SF in this case have not done it, and the Unionist council members should have put a logical case forward to stand up for themselves. Boycotting will not work in this instance. That said, they shouldn't have to defend certain things as there should be some leeway from SF on certain symbols such as the statue in question. Both sides will have to learn how to give and take, and where possible come to a shared agreement.

[Wasp]

anay political aspiration is legitimate aslong as violence is not used to try and force people who disagree with a particular aspiration into submission where it is forced upon them.

Earl the councillors should have been there to fight their corner but as usual they are for fuck all. This is a prime example of exposing sinn fein and their hypocritical pettiness where it is receiving much attention in the likes of N.Zealand and our politicians should pouce on this and squeeze every bit of propaganda out of it.

Setanta what do you mean if they don't like the outcome? I said if there is no agreement then there are no monuments etc.

[Harry]

setanta said:

Can I ask tp, WASP, Harry, Wilderness, do you see Nationalism as a legitimate political aspiration?

Most certainly

[tp]

setanta said:

Can I ask tp, WASP, Harry, Wilderness, do you see Nationalism as a legitimate political aspiration?

Yes, why not if it is a legitimate aspiration and not foisted upon other political ideologies by coercion. We live in a democracy after all, at least that's what I'm told anyway. ;D

[Wasp]

Perhaps the nationalist councillors knew there hypocritical pettiness would get this reaction from Unionist councillors. They should have went in and put these petty councillors in there place and added to the opinion which is coming from many circles that they are just looking to be offended and stir up trouble. As I said on this sinn fein IMO have shot themselves in the foot.

Due to the fact nationalist aspiration is for a U.I would you be willing for all republican monuments to be removed from the republic as well because this is the place where you want Unionists to be united with?

[bearhunter]

Hey folks, the Massey statue has certainly hit the headlines here. The general feeling seems to be "Thick bastards, are they still fighting over there?"
As for tractors, by the way, he had NOTHING to do with them. His name might have been William Ferguson Massey, but he was no relation to either family of the company that made MF tractors. Here's a good bio:
www.teara.govt.nz/1966/M/MasseyWilliamFerguson/MasseyWilliamFerguson/en

[Wasp]

Well they got the thick bastards right anyway. lol