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Post by Jim on Apr 23, 2007 23:50:20 GMT
I would like to ask why unionists have this fascination with trying to label Ireland as nazi sympathisers? Arent there more important things to worry about?
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2007 8:26:37 GMT
Anyway our personal opinions are going off topic too much, maybe we should try and stick to the thread or at least keep inline with many of the related posts. In 1944, as the allies liberated Brittany, many Nazi collaborators fled France. Some of those captured were found in possession of letters of recommendation written in English and addressed to the Irish consulate in Paris. In 1947 word reached Lainé that the Irish government was prepared to grant him asylum. Dan Leach of the University of Melbourne reveals that the former head of the Breton Nationalist Party met de Valera to discuss Lainé. “De Valera advised him (that Lainé should) continue using his alias so that if the French asked him if Lainé was in the country he could truthfully answer ‘no’,” Leach said. Lainé kept a low profile in Ireland until his death in 1983. As I already said another Nazi to take advantage of the soft approach of the Irish government was Andrija Artukovic, who was responsible for the death of 1m people in Croatia. He had a particular penchant for poisoning children and enjoyed having his picture taken with dead bodies. He arrived in Ireland in 1947 after being referred by a Franciscan church in Switzerland and lived under the assumed name Alois Annick in Rathgar, south Dublin. Cathal O’Shannon said. “In Rathgar he was saved from allied vengeance and prosecution.” Brian Girvan, a historian, says de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler’s army. During the 1970s it emerged that Pieter Menten, a Dutchman responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland, was dividing his time between Holland and Waterford, where he had a large country home at Mahon Bridge. Locals were stunned in 1976 when Menten was arrested, tried and, in 1980, sentenced to 10 years in prison for war crimes. When he was released he believed he would live out his days in Ireland but Garret Fitz-Gerald, the then taoiseach, barred him from the country. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Matthew 7:3 |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 14:22:42 GMT
Good link Earl and I hope that those involved are utterly ashamed of themselves. Anyway back to this thread, have you nothing to say about further points I made or are you only capable of answering with a point about the British.
Setanta harbering nazis, providing them with a safe haven, honouring nazi collaborators, harbouring men who were involved in the most horrendous of crimes etc is hardly a laughing matter.
It is obvious that some are over sensitive about Ireland's past, perhaps these same people should not comment on the past of other countries, because if they can dish it out they should be able to accept critisizim in an adult manner. I find it strange that much of the British's past can be discussed and the finger of blame pointed at anything British, yet when it comes to Ireland and the Irish governments and Irish terrorists involvement/support/collaborating/harboring (whichever they were guilty of) nazis it doesn't go down to well, does it???
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 15:10:11 GMT
Setanta I am not throwing stones at anyone, I was pointing out facts. This big glass house that I live in is one that you AND others have alot to say on, including one section of its people, its government and its security forces etc. If you feel that I merely posted this thread to throw stones at the R.O.I and Catholics everywhere then SHOULD THAT LINE OF THINKING NOT BE APPLIED TO peoples comments and threads on Unionists/loyalists/ the British/ the Monarchy etc etc. If every republican that starts a thread to do with the British/Loyalists/Unionists etc are there motives going to be questioned??? This attitude has annoyed me, because we can have threads on anything British but when it involves Ireland then I get accused of all sorts.
Even though I wrote
'Please note the thread was about republicans as in sinn fein honouring a nazi collaborator and has expanded out to do with the government in the R.O.I. Once again I am not talking about the Orinary Irish people'
''I think it's a shame, rather than remember the brave war effort of Irishmen fighting to help protect the world from facists....'
'"....SHOULD BE REMEMBERED OVER THOUSANDS WHO BRAVELY GAVE THEIR LIVES" (again referring to Irish people from the R.O.I)
IMO it is obvious that some here from the republican side can throw stones (as you put it) but they don't like it when these stones are threw back. When it comes to throwing stones you live in a much bigger glass house than me mate, you just have to look at those you supported/support and the very party you are involved with. So you have no room whatsoever to talk when it comes to throwing stones.
Perhaps Earl's post HIGHLIGHTED BELOW should be applied to everyone and be used as an answer by those on the otherside of the political divide.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Matthew 7:3
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 15:12:06 GMT
PS the point you made on what I was accusing you of etc, I should have put a comma after Setanta then that way you would have known (which I already thought you did) that I was not meaning you.
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2007 15:57:33 GMT
Good link Earl and I hope that those involved are utterly ashamed of themselves. Anyway back to this thread, have you nothing to say about further points I made or are you only capable of answering with a point about the British. I will answer your points now. "I hope that those involved are utterly ashamed of themselves. Anyway..." Is that the kind of answer you are looking for? |
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2007 16:00:22 GMT
As already stated. This tread was never about Sean Russell, as WASPs focus on the Irish government and Canadian priests show. I will start a thread in similar vien and fashion to WASPs in the near future.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 17:35:21 GMT
As already stated. This tread was never about Sean Russell, as WASPs focus on the Irish government and Canadian priests show. I will start a thread in similar vien and fashion to WASPs in the near future. How many times did I mention the Canadian priest?? This thread was about Sean Russell and it expanded like everyother thread. Am I to blame for it expanding? What exactly are the rules here? Republicans or whoever can start threads, post on threads and expand threads concerning the British/loyalists/Unionists etc etc, but because I have started a thread on Russell I am accused of all sorts. Even if this thread was to point out fault with the Irish gov. etc, so what? Isn't there plenty of posts from republicans concerning the British gov, hasn't threads on different issues expanded to include the British gov etc as the threads progressed. So why the double standards?  Simple as this if this is the way this thread is being viewed and replied to, then all threads from the outset that don't start with the British, the Irish, Unionists, republicans etc etc in the opening thread, then admin etc should apply the same opinions on those who start those threads in the same manner as in this thread. Another rule stopping expansion of threads where if anyone brings up the British/Irish gov. within a thread then it should be pointed out to them that this is not allowed IF IT WASN'T IN THE OPENING POST. Could we have some equality with Unionist and Republican posters, some equality concerning mentioning the Irish gov and the British gov instead of a case which is very much a case of 'DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO'. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 17:38:21 GMT
BTW Earl don't try and blame me for whatever you are going to post as you did before when you completely misquoted me and had your dig at Unionists, then used me as your reason for the dig which was way off thread.
If you are going to start a thread do it off your own back and don't use me as an excuse for what you post. But perhaps what you seem to be suggesting mite be a good idea, we could all get our own back in this childish way.
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Post by Blue Angel on Apr 24, 2007 17:48:26 GMT
come on guys, let's not have more pissing contests to use setanta's phrase.  |
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Post by Jim on Apr 24, 2007 19:01:16 GMT
The point earl is making WASP is that you made this thread because Sean russel is a republican, then you quickly made a link to dev being a nazi collaborator and we've heard it all before from unionists, many times over. its an old arguement and it serves no purpose but to put down republicanism, when infact republicanism as an ideology considers itself anti-fascist, and in practise it certainly proved that, for example taking part in the international brigade for one.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 19:29:09 GMT
The point earl is making WASP is that you made this thread because Sean russel is a republican, then you quickly made a link to dev being a nazi collaborator and we've heard it all before from unionists, many times over. its an old arguement and it serves no purpose but to put down republicanism, when infact republicanism as an ideology considers itself anti-fascist, and in practise it certainly proved that, for example taking part in the international brigade for one. Jim first of all dev was in the opening post which I copied and pasted, and so was sinn fein. Taken from opening post 'This project has enraged the Sinn Fein' -SECOND LINE OF POST. 'the only Northern Ireland man to win a Victoria Cross during World War Two was James Magennis, a Catholic from Belfast's Falls Road'-OPENING POST 'Allied powers and Eamon de Valera to'-OPENING POST 'the Simon Wiesenthal Centre'-OPENING POST 'Republicans claim '-OPENING POST ' Nazi collaborator' -OPENING POST 'In Belfast, IRA volunteers were ordered ' -OPENING POST All the above were mentioned in the opening post by myself. Secondly your comment about we have heard it all before from Unionists is a bit hypocritical, because many things Unionists have heard before from republicans. As the thread progressed it expanded to include Unionists, the British, the Israeli gov etc etc. Russel was a republican who collaborated with the nazis regardless of what he done here. IMO for anyone to honour such a man has no ground to comment on anything Unionisim has done wrong or the British or the security forces. IMO it is highly hypocritical for anyone to commemorate such a man, make excuses for dev (who was in the opening post) or anyone else for that matter, then accuse the British of this and that and harp on about collusion. Especially when some republicans commemorate a man that collaborated with one of the most evil regimes the world has ever seen. If my thread was solely to attack republicans then so what?? Haven't republicans here attacked (if that is the word anyone wishes to use) Unionists/Unionisim/Loyalists/Loyalisim/Royalists/British gov./British security forces etc etc? So why the big deal even if my thread was solely to attack republicans. Jim wrote 'when infact republicanism as an ideology considers itself anti-fascist, and in practise it certainly proved that' Well concerning some of the modern day republicans they have proved the opposite over and over again. They acted like facists by trying to enforce their ideas and opinions on others by using extreme violence against those who disagreed with them. Now that is a fact concerning those republicans who took part in the horrendous terrorist acts during the troubles. Perhaps those same republicans should practice the true meaning of republicanisim, because if what they done for three decades is republicanisim then God help us. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2007 19:32:29 GMT
Now because of the obvious dislike for anything being said about any Irish gov or what republicans celebrate etc and the ongoing hypocricy and double standards shown where I get accused of all sorts by the very same people who are quick to start threads, post on threads concerning anything British which includes Unionisim/Orangeisim etc, I will no longer post on this thread. If admin wants to remove it they can.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 24, 2007 22:14:13 GMT
It was not ME!
I never said anything!
;D
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Post by Jim on Apr 24, 2007 22:55:38 GMT
Its not hypocritical to say that we've heard it all from unionists before because we arent in the middle of questioning what republicans think of unionists, thats not what this topic is about. This topic is about you trying to label republicans as nazis or those who commemorate someone who "collaborated" with germans.
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