SEAN RUSSEL

[Wasp]

So they are allowed to remove and relace a monument of a nazi collaborator. Republic is the only one that I see that has a problem with this, and I also agree with him. I would hate to have a statue of a loyalist in the middle of Belfast that collaborated with the nazis, especially if there was commemorations for the loyalist nazi supporter/collaborator.

TBH I would also be embarrassed at the fact outside of Germany, N.Ireland is the only country in Europe that has a statue of a nazi collaborator. This surely would be taken with a very dim view if it was in N.Ireland.

[earl]

Just wondering WASP, what your views on the original UVF collaborating with the kaiser are?

[Wasp]

For starters I think you should give me some info on it because I have never heard of it.

Perhaps you should have created another thread because I think this one is about Sean Russel, or maybe you don't like the points I have made which seem to be true unless you can explain they are not true.

[Wasp]

Here is a link to my thread.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article411647.ece

[Blue Angel]

in the case of edward he had definite sympahties in favour of fascism as well. I must say wasp the complaint that the links between the kaiser and original incarnation of the UVF are irrelevant seem a little disingeouness. You used Sean Russell to show collobaration between one regime which was at war with Britain and another person (Russell in your case), all Earl is doing is illustrating that this has roots in unionist traditions as well.

Technically the UVF were actually traitors legallly and were prerpared to rebel against the declared will of the govt. how this makes them much different from the Irish Volunteers is another can of worms. Perhaps the blind eyes turned to landing 20,000 rifles bought with the Kaiser's direct approval as oppossed to the shooting of civilians during the landing of 1,500 rifles purchased for the Irish Volunteers might be worht examining in a seperate thread...

[earl]

wasp said:

For starters I think you should give me some info on it because I have never heard of it.

Perhaps you should have created another thread because I think this one is about Sean Russel, or maybe you don't like the points I have made which seem to be true unless you can explain they are not true.

The original UVF went to the Kaisers Germany, Britiains enemy, to get weapons to fight British forces if home rule passed.

So again, how do you feel about the original UVF collaborating with the Kaisers Germany against the British government? Surely you must feel exactly the same way about the UVF, as it is the exact same circumstance?

[Wasp]

setanta said:

wasp said:

So they are allowed to remove and relace a monument of a nazi collaborator. .

The Graves Association? Yes they are subject to Council Planning Permission. The new statue will be of a flame with the 4 provences plaques around it.
If you had read the thrend you'd know that he was not a sympatiser. We all know now the Nazis were the most evil regime in modern history, or up there with Stalin anyway, but when Russell went he and the world didn't know that.

wasp said:

TBH I would also be embarrassed at the fact outside of Germany, N.Ireland is the only country in Europe that has a statue of a nazi collaborator. This surely would be taken with a very dim view if it was in N.Ireland.

The fact that the Ryans were on that mission and the fact that Russell spoke against Facism so many times and the fact he also went to the USSR tells me that Russell was no Nazi.

Here's statue of another Nazi Collaborator in Britian
www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/aberystwyth/pages/askalocal_edwardviii.shtml
The Former King.
Are you going to start a thrend on him WASP?

Why would I want to start a thread on a statue in Wlaes, i HATE THE PLACE. Wales means nothing to me, but the republic might be a country that in years to come might rule over N.Ireland.

DO present day commemorations etc take place around the statue or in glorifying King Edward etc in the same way as the nazi colaborator Sean Russel ??

[earl]

wasp said:

Why would I want to start a thread on a statue in Wlaes, i HATE THE PLACE. Wales means nothing to me, but the republic might be a country that in years to come might rule over N.Ireland.

DO present day commemorations etc take place around the statue or in glorifying King Edward etc in the same way as the nazi colaborator Sean Russel ??

What's this 'rule over' cr@p! The ROI isn't a monarchy! If the situation occurs, it'll be a partnership. What do you think will happen. That the day the ROI takes over, all Protestants will lose their votes, land confiscated for the loyal members of the Irish army, and will have to worship idols of the pope? This is the 21st centuary mate, no-one is being ruled over. Well except NI is being 'ruled over' by a couple of desk jockeys in monkey suits in Whitehall, since ye don't have any full say in how your own country is being run.

And you're convieniently avoiding the questions about those kaiser collaborators the UVF. Well since it's the exact same situation, then I'll just assume that you are not hypocritical and apply the same logic to them as you do to Sean Russell.

[earl]

And whilst you are bringing up subjects that insinuate, why not look at the reasons why more people from the ROI signed up to fight Hitler, and won more decorations, than people from NI did. Would you reckon the reasons for it is because the Unionists secretly loved Hitler, or maybe they were too scared to fight. NI's only V.C.winner was a Catholic, why's that? Two can play this game WASP. Making something out of nothing.

[Wasp]

Well for starters the statue is in Wales and it is not in the capital of say London or Belfast, nor is there commemorations for him. Was he part of a group who led people to attack their fellow countrymen? If he was a nazi sympathiser then his statue should be brought down.

Now I didn't even know Wales had a statue of him and TBH Wales is not the centre of Government for the UK and I couldn't care less if they left the Union. Maybe if it was to happen I might wish they remained within it, but at present I couldn't care less.

Now people in this whole island either want to be ruled by the Irish or British government. So what goes on in this island will affect us all, so some statue in Wales is no concern of mine. But if he is a nazi collaborator then it should be brought to the ground.

I think you would need to take this up with timesonline, the observer among other newspapers and websites. Because it is not just Unionists who are complaining

[Wasp]

Ah Setanta have you ever been to Wales??? It's boring as f**k and full of sheep. lol

[bearhunter]

Thought you'd like it then, WASP. Baa.

[Wasp]

bearhunter said:

Thought you'd like it then, WASP. Baa.

;D ;D ;D ;D

I did until bo flamin peep came along. ;D ;D ;D

[Wasp]

setanta said:

wasp said:

Ah Setanta have you ever been to Wales??? It's boring as f**k and full of sheep. lol

I used to love going to Butlins there with my mates.........
But if I'm ever therte again I'll go down and cut the head and hand off the statue of Edward VIII so he's just the same as Russell. can't have double standards now can we?

We certainly cannot have double standards, so I hope when the new statue of Russel is replaced you go down and cut the head and hand off it. Like you said we can't have double standards.

PS you could do your best to call off any commemorations to him as well just to even things up between the two statues and perhaps you could get the replacement moved far from Dublin in the sameway the statue in Wales is far from London.

[earl]

Maybe I sould start a thread on the UVF collaborating with the kaiser, but I feel you'd ignore that like you've ignored nearly ever post about that on this thread