NEW MEMBERS AND DIRECTION

[earl]

Why are unionists keeping away?

[Blue Angel]

i think there might be a perception it's too nationalist dominated -but sadly by not joining in that becomes a sort of self-sustaining system. Setanta sent a link about american indians declaring a republic now i joined that site and have posted a few things on there - that site has been running one month and has 1036 members as of this morning and it rises every day and the standard of debate is fairly high with only one noticeable troll (going on about all white men been evil) who was evicted sharpish.

we seem to have got stuck in a rut of going around the same topics - we have only 3 regular unionist posters - and much as we might sometimes disagree with them they are capable of debate. But the other unionist voices we have heard have sometimes brought nothing to the table worth hearing - we need people even if they disagree who can at least respect each other as people.

[earl]

All I have to say is fair play to the Unionists who do post regularly here. I do feel sorry that under certain, heated topics, it can seem that all the republicans are ganging up, but unfortunately, considering the ratio's that exist here, that's inevitable. Although, in saying that, I used to love posting on Love Ulster when nationalists were in the minority. nothing like a scrap with your back against the wall to get the juices flowing!

[Wasp]

In all honesty I think some of those who joined left because they fely that they were just getting lambasted. Apart from that I have tried to get people on here and the response is usually that its not for them as they are fed up debating with republicans as its only denial denial denail. And as well as that there is at times double standards where Unionist posters have been on the receiving end regarding warnings etc. But in general I would say it is pretty fair.

Now I am not having a go at anyone and TBH as much as debates get heated I believe in general setanta to be fair, the reason I said you setanta is because you are partly in charge of the site.

[Wasp]

I myself have thought about leaving a few times as I strongly felt whats the point especially concerning recognition of certain facts. Harry definately helped in me reversing my decision.

Maybe these same people just felt the same and perhaps they had their experiences elsewhere. If you were on a forum and almost everyone defended the ira would you not perhaps feel the same? Especially on cetain issues such as atrocities. IMO all too often belittling sarcastic comments are directed at say one poster by republicans here, I honestly do not see Unionists here doing likewise to the same extent. We are all guilty of this to a degree but it is merely an observation on my part.

I AM NOT slating anyone here, I am giving my opinion as to reasons perhaps why some are staying away.

[Wasp]

I was actually talking about a few Unionist posters who joined and then left. We can all be sarcastic, but IMO all too often republicans take the biscuit out of it and joke and laugh at whatever someone has posted. Its not that it happens, its how often it happens and I think that has put people off. Similar to the playground where people gang up and laugh, belittle and intimidate people and make them feel thick.

Apart from that I agree with much of your post.

[earl]

I really wanted to find out what made Unionists tick, so I wasn't going to be bullied out of LU. I feel that talking to Unionists has made me a better republican. It's made me open my eyes to the reality on this island, and now can adjust my attitude to try and deal with that reality. It also has helped me question aspects of my own republicanism. I haven't become less of a republican because I can now empathise with Unionists on certain issues, or understand (to a certain extent) how Unionists react and why. I would like if Unionists could also experience this in their attitudes towards republicanism. It's not all just about the IRA !!

[Wasp]

I wasn't on LU but on the original way forward I was threatened and called all the Orange bastards of the day etc via pm. I only had joined a few weeks at that time.

[Blue Angel]

Which was totally wrong and whatever kind of knobhead called you that is not someone I'm proud to think of representing nationalism or unionism. As Setanta says he and I am some others still here were called similar insulting names - for me it was more suprising as by nature I am a quiet easy-going person and even if I strongly disagree with people I hate generalising and trying to humilate them like that. But I also have a stubborn streak down deep which people often take time to realise as they just see my amiable side at first and I was thinking these individuals can't represent every unionist there must be people capable of more discrimination in their thought processes and how can be talked with. Also, like Earl nobody bullies me away from where I want to be once I have set my mind to something.

[Jim]

Wouldn't be the first time to happen I remember Harry got a few PMs like that over on Up the Ra and I got PMs because I backed him up and then eventually banned (well, they changed my password, didnt ban me outright).

I'd like to see more unionists, more loyalists, more protestants, but not plebs like the "blues brothers" who only welcome what you say when they agree with it and then come out with a load of shite about being romans and popish and all that arse.

Have to get over that sort of thinking or this website is pointless otherwise. I went over to the first forums when I found out about it on UTR and it was the first time I'd seen a forum like it, a lot of people from Belfast and a lot of loyalists, and a good few nationalists hanging around. Sure, can get that on politics.ie but they're a bunch of plebs over there too who are more interested in the academic discussion of politics than what actually went on. I could sit and waffle on all day about political theory and academic politics but I find it pointless when talking about Irish politics.

We do tend to gang up on Wasp but he holds his own and can respect him for sticking around even though hes as hardline as ever!

[Wasp]

Cheers Jim.

[Blue Angel]

Up the ra was a site i gave up on some time ago -it's more about those who support sinn fein slagging of those who support dissidents and vice versa than anythign meaningless and some of the crap that I've seen on it referinng to British people in general in offensive terms left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.

[An Fear Dubh]

I have not posted for a period, because I saw no point, but I have continued to read. I joined this group in the hope I could engage in honest debate not necessarily with loyalist/unionist but also with those who thought themselves republican. Previously I tried to push this group forward and started a similar thread last October. I was hoping that the thread would have generated a wider input, but the input was restricted and the actions from that thread were limiting.
Everyone that posts here needs to ask themselves - what is the purpose of this item I am about to post? Because too often the only purpose of a lot of posts is to point score off individuals. The assertions made are distortions of the reality, and when rebutted are dismissed as being in denial of the truth, their distorted truth.
Previously it was pointed out that one draw back to development was a 'nice handy - www.peoplesassembly.com - name'. My question would be having identified this weakness what has been done to correct it? 5 months later!!
Another draw back is seen as the lack of 'unionist/loyalist' members. While everyone would welcome more input from various sections of society, let us not get hung up because one element hangs back. Let us look to other sections to encourage them to join this group. And hope through their input 'unionist/loyalists' might also be enticed. We also suffer from a lack of women members but no one seems to find that restricting.
I seem to remember Setanta offering to run a Poll, but that point never developed to where one was needed as the lack of input into the thread highlighted that members were happy to continue with the point scoring rather than do something constructive to change the group direction.
If you are happy to continue to point score against each other. (And as you have become that familiar with each others arguments you are no longer representative of any community but your own forum) then I like others here will watch from the wings.

[Jim]

There are ways to get them for free but I'm not sure how and it would just redirect to this website. I'll look into sorting something because I go on a few other websites (not politics related) that want the same.

[An Fear Dubh]

So what other interest groups have been targeted for potential membership apart from 'Carlton' or 'Unionist' orientated sites?