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Post by Wasp on Sept 23, 2008 17:25:17 GMT
No probs Jim but it was mainly Harry and Setanta I was referring to as there posts over the past while have been less frequent. I was only wandering what was going on as IMHO members here are entitled to know.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 25, 2008 20:43:41 GMT
Could we have some answers then to the questions I have asked??? I am the only Unionist here now at present so maybe I deserve special favours. ;D ;D This forum was called the way forward, but with most Unionists leaving because of the obvious negative attitude by republicans towards them etc, it can hardly be classed as the way forward unless you are a republican. That aside I have debated with most of you for quite sometime now, frustrating as it is at times and considering I too wanted my account closed, I am however wanting to continue debating here even though this is now a republican forum. In all honesty I don't care if all the mods/admin are republican just as long as I can fairly have my say. Infact I was going to post a few weeks ago that I think BA should join the band of mods or BHunter if he was around more. I don't need to have equal political/religious make up of admin, just as long as I have already said that we are all treated the same.
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Post by Shades40 on Sept 25, 2008 23:08:54 GMT
Where'd Bilk go? I wanted to march down the Garvaghy with him to this tune wearing my da's ole sash
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Post by collina on Sept 28, 2008 18:10:25 GMT
Could we have some answers then to the questions I have asked??? I am the only Unionist here now at present so maybe I deserve special favours. ;D ;D This forum was called the way forward, but with most Unionists leaving because of the obvious negative attitude by republicans towards them etc, it can hardly be classed as the way forward unless you are a republican. That aside I have debated with most of you for quite sometime now, frustrating as it is at times and considering I too wanted my account closed, I am however wanting to continue debating here even though this is now a republican forum. In all honesty I don't care if all the mods/admin are republican just as long as I can fairly have my say. Infact I was going to post a few weeks ago that I think BA should join the band of mods or BHunter if he was around more. I don't need to have equal political/religious make up of admin, just as long as I have already said that we are all treated the same. The reason I stopped coming on here was the lack of Unionists. I can't learn much from debating Setanta &Co. WASP, why don't you try to get a few PUL from PULSE?
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Post by Wasp on Sept 28, 2008 21:02:57 GMT
Collina the ones I did ask came here and took a look and said no partly because of the way Unionists were being treated by republicans on here. This was around the sametime other Unionists here left.
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Post by Jim on Sept 28, 2008 22:13:35 GMT
Then lets create a new Admin and let them deal with new rules.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 28, 2008 22:29:05 GMT
Then lets create a new Admin and let them deal with new rules. What has a new admin and new rules got to do with the points I made. I have only ever had a few problems with admin here and they were sorted out. The problem to do with what I was saying is not admin and in fairness to setanta he has been fair enough 'most' of the time applying rules to members. Jim you are admin as well and I have never had any issues with you dealing with any admin issues, I seperate you and the rest of admin from being admin when you post on other topics. Where's harry Jim??
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Post by Jim on Sept 29, 2008 16:28:29 GMT
Well your friends clearly see this place as a Republican trap from the highest level so removing that would change a lot I would hope.
Why are Unionists shying away from here when their opinions are challenged?
I'm not admin actually by choice, Setanta kept making me one, but I think there are too many of us and it serves little purpose.
I dont know where Harry is, I thought he was still living in England or Wales or something.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 29, 2008 20:29:32 GMT
That's a bit dramatic Jim, as I explained they saw some of the posts, nothing to do with admin or anything like it.
Jim that is an absolute rubbish assumption and accusation. As you well know there were Unionists here who debated regularly when challenged and they also challenged republicans etc. Being challenged had absolutely nothing to do with it. Some of these Unionists have become good friends of mine and I won't let anyone give false accusations of them. The constant belittling, constant dissecting and taken posts out of context, the constant trying to show them/us how stupid we are and then the insults before and after they stopped posting was and is the problem. Nothing whatsoever to do with being challenged as you wrongly assume.
As I said before admin is not the problem, if admin is changed to balance the books then it will not effect Unionist membership IMHO, the problems does not lie with how admin address issues.
I think you know what I meant Jim by asking where he was and I didn't mean where he was living.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Sept 29, 2008 21:07:45 GMT
I must admit to being a bit confused. I am unsure that Unionists are leaving because of a negative attitude by 'republicans', but various shades of unionism and loyalism are definitely not contributing on a regular basis. Who are these 'republicans' and what is a 'negative attitude'?
I fail to see how a change in Admin will affect anything. And what rules Jim do you propose to change?
The last I heard of Bilk he was complaining of computer problems and suspected 'hackers'. So maybe his silence is due to that. Other contributors like HWWITW are still active with one line rhetorical questions and very little in the way of constructive debate. A few others wanted to go on about the influence of 'Rome' on Irish Nationalism, and I think Jim grew tired of it, and rightly so.
Collina surely we non unionists can learn from each other? It is not as if we are a shining example of collective thinking. If you feel that the site 'Pulse' has interest then join it and debate. But the idea we can conscript members from other sites without providing something more than slinging the usual old arguments across the divide is not a good long term plan. The onus is on you and myself as members here to provide something more expansive. Of course a few PUL from Pulse will look and see that there is little that will interest them, because we have not created it.
I always assume that good debate is about providing proper analysis. This sometimes means dissecting opposing arguments and highlighting the weakness in them. We should try to do this without a belittling attitude and without sounding patronizing, unfortunately most are humanly weak and do rub it in when their argument is strong. With forums like this it is easy for things to be removed from the context and a new interpretation implied, but there is no way around this and it happens everywhere. All that can be done is for the author to highlight when this is done. I do not agree that there has been a deliberate attempt to infer stupidity on any one section of society. A weak or unsustainable argument is easily exposed but this holds no matter which side puts it forward. Personal insults are not tolerated under the rules, and I assume that holds for members even if the other has been banned, it is not a green light to begin insults against those gone.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 29, 2008 21:49:56 GMT
When pictures of a crying ass is used to reply to a post, when people who wish to leave are classed as cowards along with other insults, with the constant belittling that hapeened around that time etc, then that would explain an extreme negative attitude.
I agree with you here.
Definately not and I posted several posts for bilk that he asked me to do.
To you they maybe rhetorical but to me he gets to the point with valid posts. Sometimes it doesn't have to mean a lengthy post to get your point across and if you remember wilderness has indeed posted alot more than these one liners you speak of.
These others have everyright to express their opinions just like republicans. Because someone grows tired of it does not mean that these people have to shut up. Factual posts were made, some were open to debate but there was still facts within these posts. It would also be rightly so for Unionists to get tired of the republican denials and lame excuses.
I agree but all to often bothsides believe their arguement is strong at the sametime.
I agree that this can and does happen but should that allow for the numerous times that it actually does happen, and does the fact that republicans mainly do this too often not show that this is an issue republicans must deal with. If it was now and again we could understand wrongful interpretations, but the amount of times it does happen just creates the feeling of belittlement. I have no issue with heated debate or sarcasm, my issue is with how often sarcasm is used and the manner it is used in. Because I have an opinion there has been a few times when I have asked questions republicans like to avoid, I get the 'where/what is your mandate, who votes for me, I am a flat earther, what changes will I bring' etc etc. This IMO just shows how arrogant and silly republicans can be when the debates get tough for them as people here know I am not in a political party.
I agree and disagree in part.
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Post by bearhunter on Sept 30, 2008 2:53:10 GMT
How are ye all? I think from reading this thread that TWF/TPA has actually managed to become something of a victim of itself in a small way. I reduced my attendance here because I was sick of the same old shite being flung around. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing how "themmuns" (from whichever side) are all to blame and themmuns is all getting all the money/influence/power/sweeties and so forth. There haven't been many discussions that didn't descend into furious accusation and self-righteous denial and I include myself in that on more than one occasion. But let's be honest - the same people throwing the same old rocks at each other is not a Way Forward and never will be. New ideas? New thinking? Not much of that around really, is there? And not just here, but on other fora as well (and in real life too, to be honest.) It's not really anyone's fault and I don't want anyone to think that I'm having a go. It's just that it feels a bit like a bunch of old blokes down the pub reliving the same memory over and over again. Frankly, I think we're all a bit comfortable with each other. Which is in itself a good thing; I believe that with more interaction between the two tribes in NI much of the acrimony will dissipate and hopefully the old monoliths will crack and break. So I like to think it's a good thing that this site has come to something of an end. It means we can move on to day to day life, a little bit changed, maybe, and a little more ready to hear another point of view. Or at least a bit more ready not to automatically flare up when ever anyone raises another point of view. It's progress of sorts and it's also no reason to shut this place down - it's always nice to have somewhere to nip into for a quiet pint when the rest of the town is raging.
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Post by Shades40 on Sept 30, 2008 12:18:34 GMT
Sup bear, I've been toying with the idea of moving down yonder, maybe NZ first, what's the situation like for immigration down there?
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Post by bearhunter on Sept 30, 2008 18:51:30 GMT
Shades, if you have a sought after trade you're in. They're crying out for people here, after a net population loss last year.
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Post by Shades40 on Sept 30, 2008 22:00:01 GMT
Well I'm a head chef, have been for 7 years now in various restaurants, even cooked for Tony Blair is that any good?
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