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Post by Wasp on Mar 13, 2008 22:18:11 GMT
None, because there's no point in having a cross community site that isn't cross community. The spectrum of Nationalism and Republicanism is represented here already. I agree setanta but that said I wouldn't mind if more republicans/nationalists were on here either. Although IMO republicanism is very well repesented here.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Mar 23, 2008 14:27:18 GMT
I think an Irish community is alot more than Republicanism and Unionism. And therefore any forum that wants to be 'cross-community' should be looking to have more aspects to it that just one or two. The very basic element of most communities is male/female, male/male or female/female. Unless you are suggesting this is a male/male Nationalist/Unionist community!! You seem blinkered to other aspects of 'cross-community' unless it is Nationalist against Unionist. Which is not cross-community but keeping the opposing ideoligies segregated from the wider community. But that seems to be the preference here!
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Post by Wasp on Mar 23, 2008 19:29:53 GMT
This forum has both a British community and an Irish community here and even at least one female. But I think I understand what afd is trying to say, well I hope I do.
I would like to see more posters who are perhaps not so interested in the political topics like the rest of us to hear their opinions on things. It would be nice to have a few more from the republic, a few from England and Scotland.
For my part I tried to get a few of the above on here but when they seen a certain website getting slagged off and the members slagged off they weren't interested. To be fair to Setanta he removed the post. I have tried to get a muslim friend of mine on here but they seem reluctant to do so. It would be good if we had people from all walks of life and all levels of political interest.
But that is easier said than done.
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 23, 2008 20:16:26 GMT
I was going to respond to this as well WASP. This start originally came about due to us all been survivors of Loveulster when we trace it's pre-history and as a result of that the initial members tended to be fairly political to some degree or other. But I do agree it would be nice to have a larger community to draw from. Now for me the women I am closest to in my life are not Irish, my fiancee has looked on here a few times but she finds the issues confusing and when it comes to Irish topics her interest is engaged more by traditional music or myths or legends than republican or unionist politics or outlooks. Other female friends are the same. The older family members would struggle to operate a PC as it is is in any of the older folks homes I end up showing them how to use modern gadgets - showing my father and uncle how to use a mobile phone was a woeful chore in itself as to them modern technology means a 20 year old colour telly with a curved screen.
I'd be more than happy to see some wider views than our own, most of us have reasonably republican or unionist views. Republic is the least nationalist amongst the nationalist side at the moment.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 23, 2008 20:38:16 GMT
Unfortunately I was never a member of loveulster. The only forum I was ever a member of was upmj and that was completley by chance after pausing a video on a website.
The only thing I would ask is for a friend of mine who has no computer to be able to use my computer when he is up at my house. He wouldn't be a frequent poster like most here but I am sure he would be posting often enough to make him a poster.
I guarantee that I would not put him up to say anything or anything like it and I am sure you will find him a bit different from what we would class as the norm concerning politics here. But I understand some may be suspicious about my mate posting here and think it is really me, only I know if I am being honest or not which is why I understand if this is objected to.
Saying that some of you may know him or about him already as I have referred to him a number of times over the last few years.
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Post by Bilk on Mar 25, 2008 16:23:51 GMT
You still ganging up on WASP well I'm back to give him a hand lol. Sorry lads I was missing because for some time I haven't been able to get on, it wasn't for a want of trying. Carol's site has closed, what happened to all the unionists from there, why didn't they come back here?
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Post by Wasp on Mar 25, 2008 18:02:35 GMT
W.A.S.P breathes a sigh of relief, another Unionist on board. Welcome back bilk, good to see you again mate.
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Post by bearhunter on Mar 25, 2008 19:08:35 GMT
Good to see you again Bilk, I was afraid you'd got a job or something! ;D And Blue Angel you say your fiancee prefers " myths or legends than republican or unionist politics". Aren't they all the same thing?
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 25, 2008 21:00:31 GMT
Ah well done Bilk I see you got on board there - I had just sent Setanta a PM but he can ignore it now. Um my fiancee tolerates my obsession with politics as I tolerate her love of obscure cartoon films from various parts of Eastern Europe. Her brother is heavilty political and is in favour of a communist regime returning to power in Russia but then he has just turned eighteen so you can excuse him it a bit maybe given that we all thought we knew the secrets of how the world should be re-ordered at that age. His sister just nods when he goes of on his soapbox and reminds him to do his homework for college In any case he's a hell of a lot more mature than the kids I see running around here - he works two jobs in the city she comes from originally and studies as well and deliberately refuses to have a girlfriend till he has passed all his exams and doesn't drink smoke and is respectful to older people. Anyway, could we not all talk a bit more about ourselves so we could see each other as people and avoid some of the blanket judgements we all indulge in. There are no monsters or wicked people on here much as may piss each other off sometimes. I think we have to see that our politics are not the sum of what makes us individuals and we should stop to think of that a bit more sometimes. It's very hard to hate most people if you take time to learn about them.
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Post by earl on Mar 25, 2008 21:29:01 GMT
You still ganging up on WASP well I'm back to give him a hand lol. Sorry lads I was missing because for some time I haven't been able to get on, it wasn't for a want of trying. Carol's site has closed, what happened to all the unionists from there, why didn't they come back here? Salutations old friend! Thought you were out fighting the good fight against capitalism somewhere! WASP is well able to handle himself.
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Post by Bilk on Mar 25, 2008 21:34:43 GMT
You still ganging up on WASP well I'm back to give him a hand lol. Sorry lads I was missing because for some time I haven't been able to get on, it wasn't for a want of trying. Carol's site has closed, what happened to all the unionists from there, why didn't they come back here? Salutations old friend! Thought you were out fighting the good fight against capitalism somewhere! WASP is well able to handle himself. Still fighting the good fight, but still need my friends on here, even if we don't agree I hope we can disagree amiably, thanks for the welcome
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Post by Jim on Mar 26, 2008 0:08:01 GMT
Ah well done Bilk I see you got on board there - I had just sent Setanta a PM but he can ignore it now. Um my fiancee tolerates my obsession with politics as I tolerate her love of obscure cartoon films from various parts of Eastern Europe. Her brother is heavilty political and is in favour of a communist regime returning to power in Russia but then he has just turned eighteen so you can excuse him it a bit maybe given that we all thought we knew the secrets of how the world should be re-ordered at that age. His sister just nods when he goes of on his soapbox and reminds him to do his homework for college In any case he's a hell of a lot more mature than the kids I see running around here - he works two jobs in the city she comes from originally and studies as well and deliberately refuses to have a girlfriend till he has passed all his exams and doesn't drink smoke and is respectful to older people. Anyway, could we not all talk a bit more about ourselves so we could see each other as people and avoid some of the blanket judgements we all indulge in. There are no monsters or wicked people on here much as may piss each other off sometimes. I think we have to see that our politics are not the sum of what makes us individuals and we should stop to think of that a bit more sometimes. It's very hard to hate most people if you take time to learn about them. Get him on here and we can argue the merits of communism and capitalism *falls asleep*
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Post by Bilk on Mar 26, 2008 10:38:16 GMT
Ah well done Bilk I see you got on board there - I had just sent Setanta a PM but he can ignore it now. Um my fiancee tolerates my obsession with politics as I tolerate her love of obscure cartoon films from various parts of Eastern Europe. Her brother is heavilty political and is in favour of a communist regime returning to power in Russia but then he has just turned eighteen so you can excuse him it a bit maybe given that we all thought we knew the secrets of how the world should be re-ordered at that age. His sister just nods when he goes of on his soapbox and reminds him to do his homework for college In any case he's a hell of a lot more mature than the kids I see running around here - he works two jobs in the city she comes from originally and studies as well and deliberately refuses to have a girlfriend till he has passed all his exams and doesn't drink smoke and is respectful to older people. Anyway, could we not all talk a bit more about ourselves so we could see each other as people and avoid some of the blanket judgements we all indulge in. There are no monsters or wicked people on here much as may piss each other off sometimes. I think we have to see that our politics are not the sum of what makes us individuals and we should stop to think of that a bit more sometimes. It's very hard to hate most people if you take time to learn about them. I'm a lefty, but never did rate communisim, not the sort that the world has seen anyway. The trouble is, as we have seen in some parts of the world, the greedy baskets always come to the top, and we just get a different type of capitalism. I'm more of the Ghandi type of thinking. "There's is enough in this world for every man's need, just not enough for every man's greed" How you manage that is the difficult part, too many greedy people in the world, or perhaps it's more power seeking people. But power seeking people need money, because it has become our God. We worship wealth, and the plight of our neighbours mean little or nothing to us. Anyway that's not what this thread was about. Perhaps someone will start a thread on ourselves and how we feel about the world, rather than what is happening on this small island.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Mar 26, 2008 14:33:49 GMT
It is good to see that Bilk has returned to active participation because his input was positive.
I am not one of the administrators, or one of the people that forum members take leadership from. Nor does that role suit me or interest myself. But as a member I am not interested in regular participation in a group that constantly drowns itself into petty uninformed and false debate. The sole purpose of which is to point score. I think we need to move away from this and develop the potential of the forum.
We seem to be bogged down with the obsession of Nationalist v Unionist. And our criteria is into which camp do members fit. The example of Bilk's return and the messages here highlights this so the emphasis is that Bilk is 'another Unionist' to even up the numbers. The fact that Bilk labels himself as having 'left wing' politics seems slightly irrelevant or by the way. For myself having 'left wing' leanings is more important than being 'nationalist or unionist'.
Unless we recognize this group flaw and the 'leadership' adopt a plan of action that sets us on a course that moves away from this the group is doomed to stagnation and its membership will shrink and shrivel until a blind hardcore is left and I think we are nearly at this point. The fact that Carol's group could not bring itself to move over here is a lesson we should have learnt from. And we must wonder and analyze why this happened. Obviously this group did not appeal, why was this?
I would like the female membership to be increased and that is not to create a dating club. We need to look at more popular subject matter to debate, where the divide of the debate is not 'nationalist v unionist'. In fact we might need to put a temporary embargo on ourselves where 'nationalist v unionist' topics are held off for an agreed time period.
So rather than keep bemoaning the situation I think it is time that leadership and a plan of action was begun.
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Post by Bilk on Mar 26, 2008 15:42:19 GMT
It is good to see that Bilk has returned to active participation because his input was positive. I am not one of the administrators, or one of the people that forum members take leadership from. Nor does that role suit me or interest myself. But as a member I am not interested in regular participation in a group that constantly drowns itself into petty uninformed and false debate. The sole purpose of which is to point score. I think we need to move away from this and develop the potential of the forum. We seem to be bogged down with the obsession of Nationalist v Unionist. And our criteria is into which camp do members fit. The example of Bilk's return and the messages here highlights this so the emphasis is that Bilk is 'another Unionist' to even up the numbers. The fact that Bilk labels himself as having 'left wing' politics seems slightly irrelevant or by the way. For myself having 'left wing' leanings is more important than being 'nationalist or unionist'. Unless we recognize this group flaw and the 'leadership' adopt a plan of action that sets us on a course that moves away from this the group is doomed to stagnation and its membership will shrink and shrivel until a blind hardcore is left and I think we are nearly at this point. The fact that Carol's group could not bring itself to move over here is a lesson we should have learnt from. And we must wonder and analyze why this happened. Obviously this group did not appeal, why was this? I would like the female membership to be increased and that is not to create a dating club. We need to look at more popular subject matter to debate, where the divide of the debate is not 'nationalist v unionist'. In fact we might need to put a temporary embargo on ourselves where 'nationalist v unionist' topics are held off for an agreed time period. So rather than keep bemoaning the situation I think it is time that leadership and a plan of action was begun. Than you for your welcome anfear, and I'm glad you see me in the light you do, I hope I live up to it. I agree with a lot of what you say above, and it is well put. Carols site and the demise of LU seems to suggest to me that we are still locked in a little world where their is no right way or wrong way there is our way. And well dare anyone change that. I have to say there were many positives that came out of LU, that were carried forward into TWF. It (LU) was set up as a loyalist site, and true, the majority of those involved in it were if not loyalist, at least unionist. We, the people who came here when LU was pulled from under us because we appeared to be too modern thinking for them, (Well that is my view for what it's worth) tried to carry on the theme we had begun then, and we had some sucess in doing that. The trouble is we are beginning to stagnate. We go over and over the age old arguments, which is understandable, but irksome to those of us who want to move on. Rather than more unionists, I think a wider ranging membership is what is needed, not just nationalist/unionist but also those who have an interest and are willing to look to the future rather than looking back. I do understand why people want to look back, they want those from "the other side" to understand what the socalled troubles meant to them. They want them to understand their hurt, as I want people to understand mine over that period. How we attract more people to a site where, while we have heated debate, we do it in a manner that is not offensive to the other is a problem we have all tried to solve. It is not easy, because as is often said, people will travel a long way to be offended. Then again there are people with something to say, but are not interested in saying it unless they are allowed to be offensive. It is a hard nut to crack.
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