Time for All Ireland Soccer?

[Jim]

Many Northern players would get on an all Ireland team, I named a few who would be automatic already nevermind the future, why do you think the FAI "poach" northerners that are more than happy to play for the FAI? I made it clear Blik that assuming the same thing is going to happen as it did with Rugby is a false assumption, the IFA is not the IRFU and football is much more accountable to "fair play" under FIFA than Rugby is to its head bodies.

The land of my birth is Ireland, thus I want to see a team representing the island of my birth on the world state, internationally, and I know it would be a successful effort if people got behind it. People on the Falls wear ROI tops because the NI team is quite content on flying flags and singing anthems that we would never stand too.

Why doesnt the IFA adopt a flag and anthem acceptable to all? Don't say we are biased when that is the situation over at windsor park. If this remains the case then I will forever be in favour and hope to see an All-Ireland team, where I don't get bad looks and people muttering under their breath when I dont stand to their flag. Get real mate.

[Bilk]

jim said:

Many Northern players would get on an all Ireland team, I named a few who would be automatic already nevermind the future, why do you think the FAI "poach" northerners that are more than happy to play for the FAI? I made it clear Blik that assuming the same thing is going to happen as it did with Rugby is a false assumption, the IFA is not the IRFU and football is much more accountable to "fair play" under FIFA than Rugby is to its head bodies.

The land of my birth is Ireland, thus I want to see a team representing the island of my birth on the world state, internationally, and I know it would be a successful effort if people got behind it. People on the Falls wear ROI tops because the NI team is quite content on flying flags and singing anthems that we would never stand too.

Why doesnt the IFA adopt a flag and anthem acceptable to all? Don't say we are biased when that is the situation over at windsor park. If this remains the case then I will forever be in favour and hope to see an All-Ireland team, where I don't get bad looks and people muttering under their breath when I dont stand to their flag. Get real mate.

Uefa and FIFA don't agree with you about windsor mate, hence the recent awards. Do we play in Red White and blue, (which is what we would do if we were trying to be offensive to nationalists) no, we play in green and white, the same coulour as the RoI, what more do you want to make it inclusive? There is no flag that is flown at windsor (such as the Ulster Flag) that you could say was put there to deliberately offend. As regards anthems, I have never had a problem with the Irish flag, or it's anthem. (despite the fact that many of it's words are directed towards me and my ilk) I have always respected the Irish national anthem at many occasions where I have attended events down south. It is downright rude to belittle someones national anthem, refusing to stand for one should be punishable by removal from whatever event you are attending. The N. Ireland National anthem is the same anthem as for the rest of the UK, so don't tell me it was drempt up to annoy nationalists. In fact the Scots have more right to be offended, there was a verse that was directed specifically at them. (I think it has been removed now) Your offense at the national anthem of my country is a pointer towards your political biasedness, not the biasedness of the authorities at windsor for not removing it, or the flag of the UK for that matter. I have respected the Irish national anthem on every occasion when it was played in my presense.

[Jim]

UEFA and FIFA dont need to disagree with me. Green and White is the traditional colours. Inclusivity is the same stuff unionists have been crying about with Rugby, flags and anthems. Why would I go and stand up to GSTQ when even the Scottish have their own anthem? Why would I go stand the the union jack when even England don't use it? Yet it seems to be perfectly legitimate for unionists like Wasp to withdraw their support for the Irish rugby team because they played amhran na bhfiann.

Why is the "Ulster" Stormont flag still flown when it has no official position? Are you trying to crack that a big st georges flag with a six pointed star and a crown is inclusive or something?

I'm not belittling someones national anthem, I have stood for it in England, but I'll not stand for it in a country where I'm suppose to be the other major half of the population when it means absolutely nothing, for a football team that apparently I should be supporting because its the country of my birth? Are you honestly surprised people wont put bums on seats because of it?

Why doesnt NI have its own anthem as a constituent country of the united kingdom, apparently equal to the other three? especially one to accommodate the other half of us as well which at least Rugby tried to do? Until there is an inclusive one the NI team will always be flawed in thinking it can get our support to put their bums on the seats, I'll keep this in mind next team a unionist whinges about the Rugby team too.

[Wasp]

Bilk I am hopefully for the Scotland vs N.I game in August. There are at least 20 odd Catholics going on the bus. They have no problem waving the Ulster flag and cheering for N.I, infact it was a Prod who asked a Catholic to take the Ulster flag down from the back of the bus in a previous match.

Not once have I heard anything being said to them about politics or religion. I only discovered a few of those I didn't know were infact Catholic because they were joking about it. They see those who can't bring themselves to support N.I as the bigots and not the NI fans as the award proves what the NI fans are all about.

[Harry]

So my reference to your team you took as directed at you?? Why would you?? You are one of us. Setanta and Early boy are the southerners.

Jim have a long look at your arguement and if you can't see the political issues that you have then i'm not going to point it out to you. You insisted I was thinking from a political viewpoint. From some sort of anti irish camp. My only interest is in the team of NI. I'm not like you and never will be. There are 2 countries on this island, hence we have 2 football teams.

[Jim]

wasp said:

Bilk I am hopefully for the Scotland vs N.I game in August. There are at least 20 odd Catholics going on the bus. They have no problem waving the Ulster flag and cheering for N.I, infact it was a Prod who asked a Catholic to take the Ulster flag down from the back of the bus in a previous match.

Not once have I heard anything being said to them about politics or religion. I only discovered a few of those I didn't know were infact Catholic because they were joking about it. They see those who can't bring themselves to support N.I as the bigots and not the NI fans as the award proves what the NI fans are all about.

Can think of me what they want.

[Jim]

harry said:

So my reference to your team you took as directed at you?? Why would you?? You are one of us. Setanta and Early boy are the southerners.

Jim have a long look at your arguement and if you can't see the political issues that you have then i'm not going to point it out to you. You insisted I was thinking from a political viewpoint. From some sort of anti irish camp. My only interest is in the team of NI. I'm not like you and never will be. There are 2 countries on this island, hence we have 2 football teams.

Yeh I did take it directed at me, I've no love for the border, you know that, I see Setanta and Earl, You and Blik and Wasp as one people, one island and feel it should be what should be focused on, not divisions. I see two teams on a tiny island as pointless and splitting of potential without even going into the historical arguments of nation-hood that you could use in Britain. To say that NI and ROI being seperated teams is beneficial for the sport is nonesense, it does fuck all but seperate it even more. My interest is an all-Ireland team, its likely to stay that way. No wonder Irish leagues are so shite with all those nonesense..



I'll point to this thread next time someone whinges about the Irish Rugby team. Seems to me that its fine to have an NI team with all the flags and colours that have nothing to do with me or my community but god forbid the Rugby team plays amhran na bhfiann, can't be supported anymore. double standards of the highest order.

[Bilk]

jim said:

harry said:

So my reference to your team you took as directed at you?? Why would you?? You are one of us. Setanta and Early boy are the southerners.

Jim have a long look at your arguement and if you can't see the political issues that you have then i'm not going to point it out to you. You insisted I was thinking from a political viewpoint. From some sort of anti irish camp. My only interest is in the team of NI. I'm not like you and never will be. There are 2 countries on this island, hence we have 2 football teams.

Yeh I did take it directed at me, I've no love for the border, you know that, I see Setanta and Earl, You and Blik and Wasp as one people, one island and feel it should be what should be focused on, not divisions. I see two teams on a tiny island as pointless and splitting of potential without even going into the historical arguments of nation-hood that you could use in Britain. To say that NI and ROI being seperated teams is beneficial for the sport is nonesense, it does fuck all but seperate it even more. My interest is an all-Ireland team, its likely to stay that way. No wonder Irish leagues are so shite with all those nonesense..



I'll point to this thread next time someone whinges about the Irish Rugby team. Seems to me that its fine to have an NI team with all the flags and colours that have nothing to do with me or my community but god forbid the Rugby team plays amhran na bhfiann, can't be supported anymore. double standards of the highest order.

Lots of scots, almost 50% these days I'm told, feel exactly the same about Scotland as you do about Ireland. But they still manage to put away their bigotry towards the British when it comes to their footie team. And the Welsh feel much the same as you do, in both those countries there is a devide between those who wish for independence and those who don't. But they don't carry that to non support of their national team, nor a hatred for their country's flag. because they are still British. Jesus you can't see that can you, your eyes are covered with this green mist that anything that does not exclude those who wish to be British you want no part of. That my friend is the height of bigotry.

[Jim]

Neither of those countries are partitioned, historically they are seperate, culturally they are seperated, and geographically they share an island, they are similar to the Irish situation in one of those, geography.

You see, Blik, funny you mention countries flag, because NI doesn't have one.

This flag, thought up by a government long gone, that has nothing to even do with any Irish symbol other than the red hand is not the flag of NI, it has no official use, its not recognised by the British government, its not even liked by half the population, so why is it still used? I've more dislike for that flag than I do for the union jack, I've become numb to the union jack, it doesnt bother me, that one does.

[Bilk]

jim said:

Neither of those countries are partitioned, historically they are seperate, culturally they are seperated, and geographically they share an island, they are similar to the Irish situation in one of those, geography.

You see, Blik, funny you mention countries flag, because NI doesn't have one.

This flag, thought up by a government long gone, that has nothing to even do with any Irish symbol other than the red hand is not the flag of NI, it has no official use, its not recognised by the British government, its not even liked by half the population, so why is it still used? I've more dislike for that flag than I do for the union jack, I've become numb to the union jack, it doesnt bother me, that one does.

And that makes what difference to a football team???

In Scotland the highlanders and the lowlanders have a totally different culture , and the to people from Aberdeen and Inverness, they have a totally different culture to those from Glasgow. The flag you so blatently hate is the flag of Northern Ireland, not the Ulster flag. It has no need to be recognised because when someone in the UK wins something at a sports event for instance, it is the Union Flag that is hoisted. Unless of course we are talking about the commonwealth games, then it would be the flag of N.I. that would be raised, and on those occasions you are wrong it is recognised. The same would apply to the scottish or welsh flags.

You are talking politics, I am talking sport, that is because, like all repulicans, your green tinted bigotry can be left out of no walk of life, not even a game of football.

[earl]

bilk said:

Lots of scots, almost 50% these days I'm told, feel exactly the same about Scotland as you do about Ireland. But they still manage to put away their bigotry towards the British when it comes to their footie team. And the Welsh feel much the same as you do, in both those countries there is a devide between those who wish for independence and those who don't. But they don't carry that to non support of their national team, nor a hatred for their country's flag. because they are still British. Jesus you can't see that can you, your eyes are covered with this green mist that anything that does not exclude those who wish to be British you want no part of. That my friend is the height of bigotry.

I'm going to have to step in here Bilk and check you on this. Scotland and Wales never went through the sh!t NI has. When it comes to flags, we know exactly what that means in NI. Sure in the 60's and 70's, a tri-colour in a window would cause a riot and was actually against the law to put up! Now if I say the Jack doesn't represent me, that's okay, but if Jim states it, he's a bigot. Why? We're both Irish. If he says it doesn't represent him, then it doesn't, and you'll have to live with it. nothing bigoted about it. If he slagged it off, or insinuated negatively about it, then he may be a bigot, but he has not. All he has done is state that it's not his flag and never will. Last I heard, having UI aspirations, and celebrating your Irish heritage was not an act of bigotry.

[Jim]

bilk said:

jim said:

Neither of those countries are partitioned, historically they are seperate, culturally they are seperated, and geographically they share an island, they are similar to the Irish situation in one of those, geography.

You see, Blik, funny you mention countries flag, because NI doesn't have one.

This flag, thought up by a government long gone, that has nothing to even do with any Irish symbol other than the red hand is not the flag of NI, it has no official use, its not recognised by the British government, its not even liked by half the population, so why is it still used? I've more dislike for that flag than I do for the union jack, I've become numb to the union jack, it doesnt bother me, that one does.

And that makes what difference to a football team???

In Scotland the highlanders and the lowlanders have a totally different culture , and the to people from Aberdeen and Inverness, they have a totally different culture to those from Glasgow. The flag you so blatently hate is the flag of Northern Ireland, not the Ulster flag. It has no need to be recognised because when someone in the UK wins something at a sports event for instance, it is the Union Flag that is hoisted. Unless of course we are talking about the commonwealth games, then it would be the flag of N.I. that would be raised, and on those occasions you are wrong it is recognised. The same would apply to the scottish or welsh flags.

You are talking politics, I am talking sport, that is because, like all repulicans, your green tinted bigotry can be left out of no walk of life, not even a game of football.

It makes as much difference as the tricolour does to the irish rugby team. It also makes a difference to getting arses on seats at windsor park and this new stadium being planned. You are talking politics, aswell. You can read my posts, almost all of them have gave fair answers on sport, on the benefit to football of an all ireland team, I've only started to not mention it since it was completely ignored and now see that it is not about sport with unionists.

People in Glasgow and Inverness can agree they are scottish, they arent partitioned.

The flag is not representative, it is not inclusive, it is exclusive and therefore it isnt right and it isnt fair to expect anyone to stand up to that particular one. And if you don't you are labelled a bigot apparently. It needs to go or my dream of an all Ireland team with no one sided flag will always remain and hopefully become a reality. The flag doesn't even have any historic significance, its a st georges cross with a star crown and red hand.

[Bilk]

earl said:

bilk said:

Lots of scots, almost 50% these days I'm told, feel exactly the same about Scotland as you do about Ireland. But they still manage to put away their bigotry towards the British when it comes to their footie team. And the Welsh feel much the same as you do, in both those countries there is a devide between those who wish for independence and those who don't. But they don't carry that to non support of their national team, nor a hatred for their country's flag. because they are still British. Jesus you can't see that can you, your eyes are covered with this green mist that anything that does not exclude those who wish to be British you want no part of. That my friend is the height of bigotry.

I'm going to have to step in here Bilk and check you on this. Scotland and Wales never went through the sh!t NI has. When it comes to flags, we know exactly what that means in NI. Sure in the 60's and 70's, a tri-colour in a window would cause a riot and was actually against the law to put up! Now if I say the Jack doesn't represent me, that's okay, but if Jim states it, he's a bigot. Why? We're both Irish. If he says it doesn't represent him, then it doesn't, and you'll have to live with it. nothing bigoted about it. If he slagged it off, or insinuated negatively about it, then he may be a bigot, but he has not. All he has done is state that it's not his flag and never will. Last I heard, having UI aspirations, and celebrating your Irish heritage was not an act of bigotry.

On this thread, I don't give a shit about the flag, and he same applies to political asperations, this thread is about football mate, not politics. He can't support N. Ireland because they are still British, that's what sticks in his crawl, that is why he is biggoted, he can carry his hatred to a bunch of guys playing football. That is taking your bigotry much too far. He is in the same category, for me, as the biggoted bastards who spoil a sport for political ends like some Rangers and Celtic fans did in the past, that's the league he is in. It's a football team ffs. He can't stand in a football ground and support a football team because a flag is flying there, that is blind bigottery, I have stood at many a sporting event where the tricolour was flying. Why? because I am there to watch sport, it's not a political demonstration. I don't like the means by which that flag came into being, but it's there, and I live with it, I won't let it, nor for that matter, the National Anthem, keep me from watching and supporting Ireland playing rugby. And I certainly don't think the people who run the sport put it there to annoy me. If his thinking on this is not bigotted then it's an extreme form of paranoia.

[Bilk]

jim said:

bilk said:

And that makes what difference to a football team???

In Scotland the highlanders and the lowlanders have a totally different culture , and the to people from Aberdeen and Inverness, they have a totally different culture to those from Glasgow. The flag you so blatently hate is the flag of Northern Ireland, not the Ulster flag. It has no need to be recognised because when someone in the UK wins something at a sports event for instance, it is the Union Flag that is hoisted. Unless of course we are talking about the commonwealth games, then it would be the flag of N.I. that would be raised, and on those occasions you are wrong it is recognised. The same would apply to the scottish or welsh flags.

You are talking politics, I am talking sport, that is because, like all repulicans, your green tinted bigotry can be left out of no walk of life, not even a game of football.

It makes as much difference as the tricolour does to the irish rugby team. It also makes a difference to getting arses on seats at windsor park and this new stadium being planned. You are talking politics, aswell. You can read my posts, almost all of them have gave fair answers on sport, on the benefit to football of an all ireland team, I've only started to not mention it since it was completely ignored and now see that it is not about sport with unionists.

People in Glasgow and Inverness can agree they are scottish, they arent partitioned.

The flag is not representative, it is not inclusive, it is exclusive and therefore it isnt right and it isnt fair to expect anyone to stand up to that particular one. And if you don't you are labelled a bigot apparently. It needs to go or my dream of an all Ireland team with no one sided flag will always remain and hopefully become a reality. The flag doesn't even have any historic significance, its a st georges cross with a star crown and red hand.

I do not expect the authorities in the republic to cater for my political bigottry when I go to Dublin to watch a sports event. It is the least of my worries. Whether or not Brian O'driscoll is fit is what I'm thinking about not what flag is flying over the stadium. I have never heard an of my mates travelling with me bleating and griping either on this subject. We don't use it as an excuse not to support Ireland, and every one of us is a unionist. We have no problem supporting Ulster at Ravenhill either, because we are from Ulster. But Ireland is the nearest I have to a national tem in that sport, so it's my team. You, on the other hand, cannot support your national team for political reasons, that is bigottery.

Oh and the word "Ireland" appears in the name of my country, so I can agree I am Irish. Wtf that has to do with a sports team I do not know. But like the Scots and welsh, we can agree we are all Irish. Hooray for that, now we are a cert to qualify for the next word cup. It will make all the difference in the world to the lads knowing that, must get word to them as soon as possible. Wothy will have to be reminded to tell them all before every game.

[earl]

bilk said:

On this thread, I don't give a shit about the flag, and he same applies to political asperations, this thread is about football mate, not politics. He can't support N. Ireland because they are still British, that's what sticks in his crawl, that is why he is biggoted, he can carry his hatred to a bunch of guys playing football.

NI was a state created by Unionists for Unionists. The NI team carry some of those symbols of state around with them. To a Nationalist, these flags and symbols are as alien any other flag and historically, do not represent them. This isn't bigotry. How can you support a flag that your community had no part in in the first place? On another thread, I stated my idea for a UI, which included the creation of new flags and symbols, agreed by everyone, for the new state. I'm not using double standards here. I wouldn't expect Unionists to go all gooey-eyed for the tri-colour under such a hypothetical circumstance, just as I don't expect Nationalists in NI to do at the moment for the long defunct 'Ulster flag' or Jack. The 'Ulster flag' is not the official flag of NI, but is used to represent NI football team, much the same as the Irish rugby and cricket teams (and I think boxing organisation) all use alternative flags that are not politically official. There is no reason for the IFA to use the 'Ulster flag'. Now I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but if they expect to become more supported from a cross-community perspective, they should stop acting surprised when it doesn't happen, while holding on to those symbols that represented the Unionist elite of the early decades of NI's existence.

That is taking your bigotry much too far. He is in the same category, for me, as the biggoted bastards who spoil a sport for political ends like some Rangers and Celtic fans did in the past, that's the league he is in. It's a football team ffs.

Bilk, you need to take a breath and calm down. Are you seriously comparing Jim's objection to the Ulster flag to those idiots who riot, sing sectarian chants and generally behave badly? Not even the same game, nevermind ballpark (excuse the analogy). At no point has Jim even spoke derogatory-like about the flag. He has just simply stated that it doesn't represent him.

He can't stand in a football ground and support a football team because a flag is flying there, that is blind bigottery,

Nope. He has stated that if those symbols were removed, he would consider supporting NI. If he were bigoted, he wouldn't support NI if you threw a red hand on a tri-colour to replace it.

I have stood at many a sporting event where the tricolour was flying. Why? because I am there to watch sport, it's not a political demonstration. I don't like the means by which that flag came into being, but it's there, and I live with it, I won't let it, nor for that matter, the National Anthem, keep me from watching and supporting Ireland playing rugby. And I certainly don't think the people who run the sport put it there to annoy me. If his thinking on this is not bigotted then it's an extreme form of paranoia.

The official flag for the IRFU is not the Tri-Colour. As far as I can remember, they fly their own flag, the tri-colour and the provincial flag of Ulster at these games. Is WASP and his kind bigoted for not supporting the Irish rugby team?