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Post by Wasp on May 9, 2008 20:30:31 GMT
Oh so you would rather not explain it to a thick person or an uneducated person then. You are a fine example of why sinn fein should have fuck all to do with education in N.I. Excuses excuses to avoid answering the question, typical sf response. Ah well lets hope no more uneducated people join the forum because your stance is quite clear, if you don't understand then tough shit.
Bet you aren't answering it because you are as confused as all the proffesional people up here but you want to save face by avoiding it.
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Post by Wasp on May 10, 2008 21:08:26 GMT
How come there is so many confused people, many of who are proffesional educated people along with many in the teaching profession? Quite simply in plain Engish what are her plans because even journalists are none the wiser. But I see I am flogging a dead horse with this as you will not answer it.
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Post by Wasp on May 14, 2008 19:47:10 GMT
Setanta you are going to have to stop moving the goalposts here, are you saying now that if I post what anyone else says or people say you are not going to debate it because they are not on here?
I think you should be saying does Ruanne know what she is on about because teachers etc don't know. Pupils at this very minute are doing the new curriculum where there is to be no selection tests or shwould I say there was to be no selection tests.
Now the headmasters etc don't know what is going on because Ruanne the twat has made things even more difficult for pupils, teachers and parent. She is now kind of doing a u turn with 50% selection on the first year, 30% on the 2nd and 20% on the third. How on earth can scholls prepare for that and it means even more disappointment and pressure on pupils.
Probably a more important issue is the funding for school meals while she can still find money to fund getting translation for the Irish language for alot of people whjo don't even speak it.
Voting for what Ruanne wants is like a turkey voting for Christmas.
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Post by earl on May 15, 2008 9:12:15 GMT
That's pretty lousy. WASP, can you clarify the advantages to the current system that you are so vehemently supporting?
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Post by Wasp on May 15, 2008 22:34:01 GMT
I lay the blame with some teachers and parents, but change isn't necessarily a bad thing, Ruanne and her ideas are. She is acting like a hilter here and tonight on tv she couldn't as usual answer the questions put to her, one in particular was repeated about 10 times to her. She refuses to talk about all proposals, she will only meet to discuss her proposals which she wants the other parties to agree to.
As usual she doesn't know her arse from her elbow, she tried to say the dup want the 11+ to remain but embarrasingly for her she was told this is nothing to do with the 11+ and the dup are against the 11+. This is about academic selection. She continued saying she will implement the changes whether agreement is reached or not, it was put to her that this would be illegal as she needs agreement etc etc. So in typical sinn fein manner she went off in some waffle ignoring the actual points and questions put to her.
I am surprized sf have not got shot of her especially on the free meals issue.
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Post by Jim on May 15, 2008 23:22:49 GMT
Same teachers and parents that are "concerned" and "not knowing whats going on" with the minister?
She's doing her job, you don't agree with her moves, you are entitled to that, but you've yet to put forward an alternative, because regardless, the 11+ is done for. Thats the reality in the rest of the UK and it'll be a reality in NI. The 11+ is pretty much academic selection, its the only way to test for academic selection so unless you can find an alternative to the exam but keeping academic selection then there is none.
You have a point, you completely have a point, with the free meals thing, so why isnt the ministry funded adequately to provide for it? Its a unionist politician that rules that roost, Robinson controls the income and outgoings of Stormonts money. He's not done a terrible job at it at all but he should be putting more money into the education sector when it becomes available.
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Post by Jim on May 16, 2008 14:36:23 GMT
She has to agree with the budget, there was no more money. Also now we are into a good year at Stormont, policies change and urgencies change.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on May 16, 2008 14:57:04 GMT
I would have agreed with you Jim, but Health Minister Michael McGimpsey did not agree his budget and held out for more and got not all but some more. I can also find no reference to any school meals being stopped, I would like more links provide to this.
I do not think you can defend a poor minister proformance. She has handleded the situation badly although others (Paul Butler) are being left carrying the can of failure.
It was known after St. Andrews that the DUP had drawn a line on this issue and anyone appointed to the education ministry by SF would need to be skillful. I have experience with her when she ran the Feile an Phobal (West Belfast Festival), and her style does rub you up the wrong way. This was known and she should not have got this job. In fairness to her I feel she has done the best she could, unfortunately her best is not good enough.
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Post by Jim on May 16, 2008 17:12:10 GMT
The health ministry in any country is the holy grail of government, the only "ministry" that takes priority is security. In NI we dont control our own security so health still takes priority over education, so he could expect more. I don't think she has handled it terribly at all, its not perfect, what ministry is? in the big ministries its very very difficult to do a good job, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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Post by Wasp on May 16, 2008 20:22:38 GMT
Setanta fair play to you for saying this, common sense at last. For the record I don't care who would gave done this, my reaction would be entirely the same. It is nothing less than disgusting.
Setanta according to the newsletter Unionist politicians did speak out, but if that was it then they are for fuck all on such an important subject. I hope to call with someone in the know in the next few days to see what I can find out. Have you been able to find anything on it from party members up here?
You are wrong setanta, she was on hearts and minds and she was repeatedly asked how can she do this without the consent of others in the assembly etc, her answers were nothing short of a dictatorship. When asked again and again how she was going to translate ‘her’ vision for the future of education here into a reality, despite the opposition of all the other parties on the Executive, she said simply kept stating that she was the minister.
She is part of a power sharing executive which requires cross community consensus on major issues like this one. She has the power to bring forward ideas but not the unilateral power to implement them without the executive’s agreement. So why is she saying different and making a fool of herself again?
Noel Thompson’s tenth attempt to get her to answer the question of how she could bring forward her plans without agreement she simply repeated that she was the minister for education. She seems unable to accept that the law says she needs consensus to make changes and that if she doesn’t get agreement selection stays. Ruane would be kicked out on her arse anywhere else for doing this.
If this figure is correct then of course that is a major worry but that doesn't mean the 11+ or academic selection is to blame. I know families through my voluntary work who can't be arsed sending their kids to school half the time, they would rather let the kids do as they please and other kids think there friends parents are great for doing this. Academic selection is not to blame for this either.
Again academic selection is NOT the cause of this.
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Post by Wasp on May 16, 2008 22:04:40 GMT
A bbc interview with the Education Minister, Sinn Féin’s Caitriona Ruane, openly briefing against her Executive colleagues - “It is disappointing that colleagues who claimed that they wanted a discussion on the proposals didn’t even engage. What happened today was an attempt to frustrate change.” It also quotes the out-going First Minister, the DUP’s Ian Paisley Snr.
Mr Paisley said: “The education minister can make any suggestion she wants to. However, it will not come into force until she has the support of the DUP and the endorsement of the executive. “This is now a matter for the executive to deliberate and to decide upon. “We supported a proposal for a sub-committee of the executive to deal with this - this was rejected by Sinn Fein. “We supported a proposal by Margaret Ritchie that the executive as a whole would discuss the issue of post-primary education - this was rejected by Sinn Fein. This is an entirely unacceptable position.”
Doesn't sound very democratic now does it?
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Post by Jim on May 17, 2008 2:09:35 GMT
The DUPs "my way or the highway" is even less "democratic", as if democracy even matters these days. Its a buzz word.
Maybe they should change their logo. "DUP: Failing the working class since 1997"
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Post by Wasp on May 19, 2008 16:15:55 GMT
Setanta how many of that 37% (if the figure is correct) wanted to goto school in the first place, how many came from backgrounds where there parents took no interest in there education or even cared whether or not they sent their kids to school.
From my own experience I passed the 11+ but quickly lost interest in school which was mainly to do with the circle of friends I kept and an increasing lazy mind. When I first went to the new school we were put alphabetically into classes for about 3 weeks where we sat another series of tests. The results of these tests placed you in whatever class and the lower the class the smaller the workload. This helped less bright pupils to catch onto whatever subject they were doing. AFter the summer exams each year you could either be dropped a class or put up a level.
For those who didn't get the grade in there 11+, many went on and transferred from secondary school to grammar school in 2nd or 3rd year to do a higher level of education and entered the grammar school system. The grammar schools also accepted those who didn't get there 11+ because headmasters/teachers wrote to the grammar school on the kids behalf due to the fact they felt their academic level was higher than there 11+result suggested.
If anything I was jealous of some of my mates as they didn't have the homework I had, they got off school for work experience and got doing subjects such as woodwork, cookery etc and had more recreation time. But I must add I know plenty of secondary school students who either achieved no grades or good grades and went on to uni after tech etc.
If I was a teacher I would rather have 30 kids who are roughly on the same academic level rather than a mix of levels. The lower the level the more time teachers have to go through the subjects because there is less subjects and languages to cover.
NI has been the envy of the rest of the UK with there high levels of education and one of the best education systems, so it must be in recent years that this trend has decreased if that is the case. I am all for change if it helps the kids and teachers but not at the expense of academic selection.
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Post by earl on May 20, 2008 9:14:22 GMT
Setanta how many of that 37% (if the figure is correct) wanted to goto school in the first place, how many came from backgrounds where there parents took no interest in there education or even cared whether or not they sent their kids to school. For NI's sake, a decent proportion of that have better wanted an education, else NI will struggle to supply skilled labour for todays high-tech, high skilled economy required by a 1st world country to be successful. That's fair enough, but that is making the assumption that the 11+ is a successful way of doing this. Indeed you should be for change. NI can only stay tops within the UK by constantly improving the educational system. |
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