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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2008 11:58:10 GMT
By Sam McBride and Anne Palmer
DEPUTY First Minister Martin McGuinness will tonight (last night) be named as one of the senior IRA commanders who knew about the Enniskillen bombing in which 12 civilians were massacred.
The claim – which will be broadcast across the UK on BBC Two by one of the most respected journalists to have covered the Troubles – has come from intelligence sources north and south of the border.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2008 12:38:37 GMT
Last night Mr Taylor told the News Letter that it was victims of the 1987 bomb who had alleged to him that Mr McGuinness was involved when he was filming for the documentary last November.
"They first raised Martin McGuinness with me and I then went away and spoke to intelligence sources," he said.
"All sources, both north and south of the border, came up with the same thing – that Martin McGuinness was the leading figure in the IRA's Northern Command at the time."
And in the programme, PSNI Detective Chief Superintendent Norman Baxter said that Northern Command knew about the plan to bomb the Remembrance Day service.
Investigation
The senior officer, who led the investigation into the bombing, told the programme that it was not an unauthorised, one-off operation by a local IRA unit but was carefully co-ordinated as part of a "strategy of genocide" by three IRA units – two from the Republic and one from Northern Ireland.
He said that prior to the bombing there were deliberations at a very senior level within the IRA and that its Northern Command knew of the operation.
"The calculation was taken as to the number of casualties they could inflict on the civilian population against the number of casualties they could inflict on members of the security forces – and they decided the risk was worth taking," he said.
Mr Baxter also pointed out that the IRA planned a simultaneous attack on a Boys' and Girls' Brigade parade at the border village of Tullyhommon a few miles away but the bomb failed to go off. (what exactly would republicans on here describe this failed attack as?? It was nothing more than an outrageous sectarian attack against Protestant children)
It is unbelievable that this piece of sectarian trash is our deputy first minister, worse still is the fact that people voted for such a coward and worse agsain there are those who defend him. Shame on them all.
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Post by earl on Apr 23, 2008 14:21:22 GMT
Was this all in relation the that program 'the age of terror' last night? I didn't get to see it because I was watching that ginger tosser score into his own net.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2008 15:45:35 GMT
Yeh that was it Earl, I will try to get you a link. If say the security forces both sides of the border KNEW that say Paisley was a commander of an organisation that carried out the Dublin bombs and knew about them etc. Then how on earth would people on bothsides of the border feel about him being either first or deputy first minister. It is disgusting and sickening to say the least.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 23, 2008 22:28:41 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00b09p2.shtml?order=aztitle%3Aalphabetical&filter=category%3A100005&scope=iplayercategories&start=1&version_pid=b00b09n6I hope that each and everyone of you realize the extent of what the ira intentions were, especially given the FACT that a much larger bomb was targeting the ira's so called legitimate targets made up of children at a girls/boys brigade parade. I hope after watching this those here who supported the ira, refused to condemn there actions, defend sinn fein/ira etc are haunted by the images. Shame on all those who supported the ira, not only on this but on their many other atrocities and the hundreds more which were narrowly avoided. By the grace of God that tractor saved loads of childrens lives, Protestant children who were seen as legitimate targets by the vermin bastards in the ira. Hell won't be full till they and their ilk are all in it. Bastards
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Post by Shades40 on Apr 24, 2008 2:00:03 GMT
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2008 12:26:44 GMT
shades you are nothing more than a twisted joke, your sectarian bigotry is there for all to see along with your love of the ira.
I think you are leaving out the bigger picture of what happened at those funerals, and you seem to oddly be forgetting the ira targeted innocent civilians at Enniskillen and children as young as 6 who were taking part in a girls/boys brigade.
But just you come up with the usual onesided propaganda shite and ignore the rest of the thread. You just can't bring yourself to say anything about it which proves where your symapthys and support lies and that includes the butchering of innocent men, women and children.
Then again what else should we expect from a bitter, twisted fantasist republican.
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2008 12:32:24 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00b09p2.shtml?order=aztitle%3Aalphabetical&filter=category%3A100005&scope=iplayercategories&start=1&version_pid=b00b09n6I hope that each and everyone of you realize the extent of what the ira intentions were, especially given the FACT that a much larger bomb was targeting the ira's so called legitimate targets made up of children at a girls/boys brigade parade. I hope after watching this those here who supported the ira, refused to condemn there actions, defend sinn fein/ira etc are haunted by the images. Shame on all those who supported the ira, not only on this but on their many other atrocities and the hundreds more which were narrowly avoided. By the grace of God that tractor saved loads of childrens lives, Protestant children who were seen as legitimate targets by the vermin bastards in the ira. Hell won't be full till they and their ilk are all in it. Bastards That iplayer is restricted to the UK only, but I got a torrent download of it. Watched it last night and it made me sick to the pit of my stomach. Those poor, poor people. I would sooner live in a permanently divided island, than achieve a UI through those means. To me, those people should be held in as high an esteem as the victims of Bloody sunday. Their loss demonstrates the absolute dark side of violent Republicanism and it's up to true republicans to ensure that the movement stays where it is as a political movement for a political ideal. I'm still angry about it today. Those poor, poor people. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2008 12:43:10 GMT
Thank you Earl for acknowledging this fact, that means alot to people like me. How did you feel about the kids parading with the church being targeted but by the grace of God a tractor destroyed what would have been a much bigger disaster?
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2008 12:54:15 GMT
I felt sick about the whole program. What absolute sick and twisted logic is required to assume that acts like this would be condoned by the Irish people and would help a UI. Those poor people interviewed who had lost loved ones are far stronger than I as I would have been spitting venom about the murdering pigs that did that. You used to see so much of this on the news back in the day, that down here, you could get immune to the news reports and forget about the tragic human element to it all. That really brought it home.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2008 15:40:15 GMT
It is acts like this that just cemented the Unionist resolve not to go into a U.I.
That is exactly how I felt, ifact if I am being honest it had me in tears. Sadly this wasn't an isolated act and innocents all to often were the target by bothsides. Anyone who claims different is a liar.
It certainly did, I remember when I was quite young a relation of mine was targeted and for years after it as soon as I heard something happened I immediately sat with worry incase it was a friend or family. One ambulance driver I know lifted a mans head out of a driveway and helped the police lift bits of fingers and bone etc out of downpipes and rooftops.
I know there is everychance if I had to do a job like that on a daily basis then I would probably have ended up in jail. Any wander my parents never told me about us being put out of our home until I was much older.
Those who died in the Dublin bombs were everybit as much as targets as those who died in bombs etc up here, this is the point I am trying to get across to showhow deeply we feel about these attacks. To dismiss them or answer with another incident is a total insult to those who died, the injured and their families.
Thank you Earl.
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Post by Bilk on Apr 24, 2008 15:47:15 GMT
And your point in relation to last nights program is? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 26, 2008 20:43:33 GMT
Adams and McGuinness fell out over Poppy bomb
A journalist involved in making a major television series on terrorism has claimed that Sinn Fein leaders Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness fell out over the repercussions of the 1987 Enniskillen bomb.
Peter Taylor, whose series “Age of Terror” focused on the role the Enniskillen atrocity played in “the long road to peace”, says “in the wake of the bombing, Gerry Admas and another senior IRA figure are reported to have discussed declaring the IRA ceasefire to try to mitigate the political damage”.
“But McGuinness was against the idea,” writes Taylor in an article to accompany the series. “Adams and McGuinness are said to have fallen out over the suggestion”.
It is a remarkable scenario, in that it was to be another seven years before the IRA was to call its first ceasefire.
Taylor also says that intelligence service on both sides of the Border believe that the IRA’s Northern Command approved the Enniskillen bomb, and that McGuinness was the leading figure in Northern Command at the time.
Despite this, two relatives of people killed in the bomb have appeared on the programme to endorse Martin McGuinness’s role as Deputy First Minister.
Taylor says: “Intelligence reports record that three days before the bombing, McGuinness was stopped in a car by Irish police on the Donegal border. He was with three members of the IRA who were based in the south. The subsequent intelligence was that McGuinness was going to be briefed about the Remembrance Sunday attacks.”
Taylor continues: “In the hours after the bombing, my sources say that McGuinness travelled to Fermanagh to question members of the local IRA unit to find out what had gone wrong. Reports also indicate that the day after the bombing, he went to see the officer commanding the IRA’s Donegal unit for the same purpose”.
The now Deputy First Minister was not interviewed for the programme, but Taylor says: “McGuinness told me that he had not been a member of Northern Command and he had had no knowledge of Enniskillen.”
Despite the programme’s claims, Mrs. Joan Wilson said: “I regard him (McGuinness) as a good politician. I’m sure he has to learn a lot. We all learn from experience. But it was a big step for him, too, and I wish him well.”
Stephen Gault, who saw his father, Sammy, lying dead in the rubble, said he had reluctantly come to terms with Martin McGuinnessís transformation.
“It’s hard to stomach him being Deputy First Minister, but I think having peace in Northern Ireland is the best thing that ever happened. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but I’d rather be where we are now than back in the Troubles”.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 26, 2008 20:47:48 GMT
Martin McGuinness - what did you do?
Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness's past as a leading member of the Provisional IRA could yet come back to haunt him. By Malachi O'Doherty
Friday, April 25, 2008
It really isn't news that Martin McGuinness was the leader of the Provisional IRA's Northern command during the 1980s. Practically every book on the history of the Provisionals tells us that. It is only a matter of extrapolation then to work out how much responsibility he had for carnage during the Troubles.
So, when Peter Taylor, the investigative journalist, connects McGuinness to the Enniskillen bomb, as he did in his Age of Terror documentary this week, he is, in one way, merely stating the obvious.
By similar extrapolation we can connect McGuinness to the IRA's campaign against construction workers, the assassination of loyalists, the long-range sniper attacks on British soldiers and virtually any category of IRA activity you like to mention; the torture and assassination of suspected informants, for instance, or the bombing of a fun run in Lisburn.
All Taylor really told us about McGuinness is that he was a top Provo.
It is what we knew.
Logically his telling us changes nothing and yet, potentially, it changes everything.
McGuinness himself may think that most of us believe his claim that he left the IRA in 1973.
No one at all believes that, least of all those who loudly proclaim it.
But we know our Martin and forgive him, don't we?
We're really impressed that he has turned out to be so amicable and cheerful, having snarled at us so much over the years about 'the cutting edge' and tripe like that.
It's not that we don't know what he did, just that we don't want it shoved in our faces, lest we should doubt our decision to forgive him, for that is what we have done.
It is hard to reconcile the gritty, bitter hard man of the eighties with the affable poet, fisherman, DFM of today.
One thing the contrast tells us is that McGuinness is deeply relieved to be where he is now, with his bloody past behind him.
The alternative futures that he would have envisaged for himself 20 years ago must have included a grisly death or a long term of imprisonment.
Compare, for instance, the fates of many Palestinian leaders of similar standing: Arafat trapped in his bombed bunker for months before he dies, where even the toilets didn't work; Yassin and Rantissi bombed from the air.
It was fortunate for Adams and McGuinness, and those around them, that the British opted for a strategy of infiltrating and managing the IRA rather than destroying it.
If the British had changed that policy at any time, they would not have announced it and given the army council a chance to scatter.
Adams and McGuinness would probably just have gone the way of INLA leader Ronnie Bunting, shot dead in his home by slick assassins that most republicans sincerely believe were from the SAS.
McGuinness lived most of his adult life with the expectation that that was a turn his fortunes might take. We would simply have woken up one morning to the news that he was dead.
But how secure is Martin McGuinness, even now, against embarrassing, even politically crippling, disclosures from his past?
Surely someone who touched the lives of so many has left evidence and witnesses behind of the offence he has given.
In a normal political environment a contender for political leadership is scrupulously vetted for depth charges in history: affronted lovers, bank statements, hi-jinks on You Tube.
Where politics is normal, no party in its right mind would run Martin McGuinness, with his past.
The danger of embarrassing disclosures is too great. We may know broadly what job he had in the IRA; it's doubtful we could bear the details, and we can't be sure we'll forever be spared them.
This is the theme of David Park's brilliant new novel, The Truth Commissioner, in which a Sinn Fein minister — the Minister for Children and Culture — is threatened by the exposure of past deeds, some of which were not cultural or considerate of children at all.
Logically, everyone knows, in broadbrush terms, the kind of things the minister did. Yet, when a plausible claim is suddenly made explicit, his position becomes untenable.
On the one hand we know what McGuinness did; on the other, we know little or nothing of the detail. Nor might we want to, just yet, when disclosure might create such political damage.
Some know very clearly. Ian Paisley is a member of the Privy Council and entitled to the fullest briefing he could ask for. Old peelers know. They probably marvel at the irony that McGuinness, having chosen so many of the victims in Northern Ireland, got to help pick the victims commissioners, too.
But this is an irony for future reflection. It may be that when we have moved so far beyond the Troubles that we no longer see politics as an essential contrivance for sparing us their resumption, we will look with a colder more critical eye at the characters and careers of the people we have elevated. And we may not remember that this generation showed extraordinary forbearance and forgiveness.
We will just wonder if it had a particular fondness for dangerous men.
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Post by Bilk on Apr 27, 2008 15:56:26 GMT
No one in Northern Ireland will ever have to account for what they did, because it would threaten the socalled peace process. It doesn't matter anymore what they did, the only people who have to live with the aftermath of what these bastards did are the victims (those who lived) and the families of those who both lived and died. No one gives a shit about them, they are politically expedient. The same antics that these murdering bastards and their predecessors accused the British and Northern Ireland governments of for centuries. Political expediency. They are lying toerags and a politition is just about the right job for them. They are qualified for no other, oh perhaps they could apply to be mercenaries in some far flung country where no one would know what murderous deeds they were doing. They are well qualified for that.
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