Loyalist arms and the total hypocrisy

[Wasp]

Setanta are some of my neighbours and relations a high priority target for you during your absolute support for the ira. Some were in the security forces, some were not?

[Wasp]

And also were the various Unionist politicans high on your priority list.

[earl]

Apr 22, 2008 16:33:23 GMT Harry said:

I think we have been here before. What will Loyalists gain from handing in their weapons?? Nothing. It won't change anything, at all. Loyalism will still be on the fringes of everything. Until Loyalism can articulate itself as a worthy political machine then i'm afraid that decommissioning won't ever be on the cards.

It shouldn't be any surprise or be called hypocritical. The DUP, UUP or any mainstream Unionist party don't represent me. They demanded the IRA handed in their weapons, not Loyalism.

I'm openly stating that it would be foolish of Loyalism to hand over all their weapons. The IRA certainly retains a capability, unless some of you Republicans are going to tell me the IRA have no weapons at all now??

I'll be honest Harry, with the whole history of things, I'd be very surprised if the PIRA had totally decommissioned. But if the IRA did start up again, I'd say it wouldn't be as before. They now know the British governments weakspot, and if they did ever start again, they'd be concentrating on hitting the corporate areas of England. If this is their thinking, then they don't need massive dumps of guns. They could hand all that over, safe in the knowledge that their ace is still up their sleeve.

[Wasp]

No one was ever my target and no one ever will be.

And no-one has ever been my target yet you asked me the same question but duck out of answering it when it is asked to you. Fucking typical.

During the confict security forces were targets for the IRA.

And you are forgetting the civillians etc who were very much targets.

But the IRA have decomissioned and stood down to the satisfaction of the DUP and UUP whp represent 90% plus of Unionists and to the satisfation of the British and Irish Governments and to the satisfaction of the IIMC, so no one will be a target for Republicans of my hue.

First of all they only represent 90% plus of those who vote and you know how oftren the turn out is poor. Secondly IMHO the ira did not completely decommision.

The Conflict is over. The Princible of Consent is enshrined in the GFA and the St Andrews Agreement and there is an inclusive, viable and democratic government in place that was elected by the people to represent them.

And there were democratic system in place which the ira just said no to and continued violence from the border dissident campaign right through to their ceasefire.

[Bilk]

I'm sorry Setanta, how you can still in your naievity. or maybe it's the green mist again, believe that civillians were not targeted is way beyond my comprehension. I am not going to ligitimise this argument with a list of bombs where nothing else but civilians could have been the target. Statements like the one you have just made about civilians is why no one in their right senses in the unionist community will ever trust SF or their followers.

"No fool would target civilians and expect to have the international support the IRA had. I whole-heartedly disagree with you.
BUT civilian casualties are enivitable in a prolonged conflict. Re-read your wods now and remember that fact".

When these bastards were doing what they were doing, they didn't give a shit about international support. The IRA had support around the world because in every corner of every country and goverment there were the Irish in suffecient nombers feeding the lie on what was happening in Northern Ireland. No one in those countries was speaking for unionists. Because the Irish like they always do trail their false history around the world long before the bombing campaign had even begun. The great great great grandchildren of Irish emmigrants can quote the republican version of Irish history chapter and verse. That's why they got international support.

[Wasp]

Apr 24, 2008 8:04:13 GMT @setanta said:

WASP and Earl, I deleted your posts with the OTT personal insults against each other.
Please cut it out and try to debate with reason.

No problem but when someone insults me I am not going to sit back and be birdmouthed.

[earl]

ditto

[Wasp]

I'm ducking nothing WASP. You are the one advocating illegal paramilitaries re-arming.

Yes you are, I put the same questions back to you and you ducked out of answering them, and you are the one who supported the iras murderous campaign throughtout the decades and don't forget they were an illegal organisation that you wanted to remain. No difference there apart from your hypocricy.

No fool would target civilians and expect to have the international support the IRA had. I whole-heartedly disagree with you.

You would disagree because you haven't a clue about up here apart from the heroic romantic fantasy stories and crap your head is filled with. There is decades of proof of the ira targeting civillians yet you go on denying and denying. To say different either means you are a liar or you are completely gullible.

BUT civilian casualties are enivitable in a prolonged conflict. Re-read your wods now and remember that fact.

So why the fuck was a boys brigade parade targeted with a much bigger bomb than enniskillen. Civillian targets are inevitable especially if you target civillians like the ira done over and over again.

In all honesty if the Governments, the international community, the IIMC, and the political parties all accept that the IRA decomissioned and that there is no threat from the IRA, why do you keep flogging a dead horse? You're wasting your own time and acheiving nothing.

I ain't going to keep quiet while the butchers of innocent people are in gov. and they haven't come clean on their roles. Take that bastard McGuinness and his involvement in the Enniskillen bomb or forcing people to become suicide bombers etc. I sincerely hope that bastard dies a slow and agonizing death.

There was not a free and fair democratic system and the calls for that were beaten off the streets. Then we got sucked into the cycle of conflict. and when we broke that cycle we arrived where we are today.
In a free, fair, inclusive, viable democratic society where the princible of consent in enshrined.

Ah your arse setanta, you are talking tripe as usual with your spin and lies. You were sucked in I suppose in the 50's with the dissidents and then again at the beginning of the troubles. Your hate filled party and its private army has provided decades of proof of what they were about and that was against anything democratic until loyalists started hiiting the right targets and 911 happened.

You're saying that Loyalism will gain nothing from decomissioning.
Loyalism has nothing to lose from decomissioning either but they will be taking thousands of weapons out of society which can only be a good thing, as those weapons are more likely to be used on YOU and the Unionist people.

Well if they do need to be used then it is more than likely that they will be used on you and the republican community.

[Bilk]

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6P62lWA7Q


Explain how this was not aimed at civilians?

[Bilk]

Apr 24, 2008 13:37:00 GMT @setanta said:

Apr 24, 2008 12:50:27 GMT Bilk said:

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6P62lWA7Q


Explain how this was not aimed at civilians?

It wasn't a sanctioned bomb and the ASU was stood down. It was supposed to be targeting the colour party.
I don't want to see anything like this ever again.


WASP, You're still calling for the good fight and ignoring that the type of causalities you saw in Bilks clip are inevitably going to happen again.
Maybe the dismissed ASU agreed with the sentiments you showed here.

about deserving what you get because of who you voted for easily applies then to those who voted sinn fein during the troubles and were targeted by loyalists

But I reiterate my belief that it wasn't a campaign objective to target cilvilians BUT any fool knows that in a prolonged conflict it's going to happen.


and before you post another clip just remember that I can post clips of massacres as well.
It doesn't help us does it? The Unionist and British Leaders who were involved in those acts and arming those who were invlived in those actsare still there as well. One is First Minister and another will be taking over from him soon.
If we all focused solely on that we'd still be at war.

You can post as many links as you like setanta, I have never tried to defend loyalist violence as economic targets, nor would I have the nerve to. Nor have I ever said that any act by loyalists was not sanctioned. Any socalled sancioned acts of republicans were no less worthy of the name "economic target" than this one.
A fish shop on the Shankill road was an economic target? The La Mon house full of dog lovers was the hub of the economy was it? I could go on but I won't it's too sickening for me to even write.

[Bilk]

Apr 24, 2008 14:31:40 GMT @setanta said:

OK bilk.
But this thrend is supposed to be about removing the gun from Ireland.Do you think it's time?

Yes I do but totally, not just put beyond use as was euphamistically put by the then leadership of the PIRA (Gerry and Marty) All weapons loyalist, republican, and any other illegal guns or munitions should be burnt or blown up in the middle of a field for all to see. No amiguities, no skullduggery, and no smirks.

[Wasp]

Setanta you keep bleating on about the problems within loyalism, this is typical republican bullshit to diflect blame from where the blame firmly lies regarding Unionist opinion on the current situation and that is your party and many of their supporters.

It is sinn fein and there ilk that are doing the damage to devolution from a Unionist poit of view, TUV etc have to do nothing as your reps are doing it for them. You will never ever be trusted as long as you continue with your denial, lies, spin, sectarian and bigotted points of view and agenda.

As long as you and your lame excuse for a democratic party keep denying the facts about what happened up here, the reality of ira attacks then I will keep speaking my mind. It is obvious beyond doubt that your party are not interested in anything Unionist unless it is to provoke etc.

Just stay in denial along with your party and never face the real truth, and people like me will never ever trust your party, not now not ever.

[Wasp]

It wasn't a sanctioned bomb and the ASU was stood down. It was supposed to be targeting the colour party.
I don't want to see anything like this ever again.

You are a liar and it is an utter insult to try and claim what you just did. You are forgetting 3 active units were involved, 2 from the south and 1 from the north along with a number of ira sympathisers to act as look outs. Not just one unit as you and your cohorts claimed. Your blind bigoted sectarian hatred is unbelievable. They were never targeting a colour party, they were targeting mainly civillians because where they placed the bomb was right behind where most civilians stood to watch the parade. Your claim is a lie and an insult and fuck me you are showing how naive/gullible you really are if it is not because of your sectarian hatred. No matter where they planted the bomb the bulk of victims would be civillians.

Bono made a great speech during one of his concerts about republicans so called fight when they tell people in America about there so called struggle. Even gadaffi condemned the ira for it, but not you or your ilk.

Talking to you concerning such attacks is like talking to a brick wall, ask Earl to give you link to watch the programme. What about the much larger bomb that was set to go off and target boys and girls taking part in a Church parade for remembrance day in a remote border village with no more than 3 members of the security forces there. But for the grace of God a tractor drove over the command wire. This just proves again not that proof is needed what the targets were with that bomb along with the many others.

[earl]

That's off the U2 movie 'Rattle and Hum'

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

don't you realise wasp that was failed bomb attack on the crack miltary units known as the boys and girls brigade 20 miles away from enniskillen. And of course as blik already mentioned the succesfull attack on the secret inteligence service knows as the Irish dog breeders accoisation.
I would not to to quick to point the figures at what is going on in loyalist areas either after all look what happened to bap. seems you need to get you own house in order as well.