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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 11:30:39 GMT
As much as I don't want anyone to be injured never mind killed, I don't want true loyalists to hand over one single bullet at the moment, the loyalist thugs who bully and abuse their own community can fuck off. Those who are dedicated to their cause should not hand over a single bullet as I said, if they had the political clout that took them into government then that would change the whole situation.
But as things stand not a bullet.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 11:50:17 GMT
Setanta I have been out and about in my community trying to do community things and I have never seen so much anger as I see now. IMO this is going to reach boiling point and I am also talking about people who just wanted to get on with their lives and had no interest in politics, but that is changing and changing fast.
Whether you take it as insults or not I am stating facts and what is felt with in the loyalist community. Sinn fein have done more damage to devolution that anyone else or any other group. They are constantly creating and maintaining tensions with lies, spin and propaganda. You know yourself that I have welcomed various moves by sinn fein, you know I condemned all terrorist violence but I did say if it were provos and their ilk being taken out then I would sympathize. But look at how I am now, nothing to do with as Earl claims my mask slipping or anything like it, it is down to sinn fein and the republican element.
While this is an ongoing process of trying to be offended, denying my cluture and way of life, having problems with anything Protestant and Unionist, having blatant double standards concerning almost everything, while there is a threat from dissidents etc I would advise all true loyalists to keep their weapons, infact if they can buy more as it is better to be prepared and not needed than to be needed and not prepared.
You have your views and I have mine but if you can't even see the provocative nature of sinn fein concerning the PUL community and the games they are playing then I don't know what will make you see.
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Post by Shades40 on Apr 18, 2008 12:32:52 GMT
this is goodCan the authorities persuade loyalist paramilitary groups to come in from the cold?
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Post by Bilk on Apr 18, 2008 13:54:33 GMT
Setanta I have been out and about in my community trying to do community things and I have never seen so much anger as I see now. IMO this is going to reach boiling point and I am also talking about people who just wanted to get on with their lives and had no interest in politics, but that is changing and changing fast. Whether you take it as insults or not I am stating facts and what is felt with in the loyalist community. Sinn fein have done more damage to devolution that anyone else or any other group. They are constantly creating and maintaining tensions with lies, spin and propaganda. You know yourself that I have welcomed various moves by sinn fein, you know I condemned all terrorist violence but I did say if it were provos and their ilk being taken out then I would sympathize. But look at how I am now, nothing to do with as Earl claims my mask slipping or anything like it, it is down to sinn fein and the republican element. WASP, can you show me just one thing that Sinn Féin have done since the Assembly started up that we weren't crystal clear about our intentions on before it happened? Because the fact is the vast vast majority of Unionist people voted for a return to devolution by voting for the UUP and DUP. They were both well aware about what was in our manifesto and on our agenda for government. What Sinn Féin are doing in government was well advertised in advance so why are you surprised now that our plans for representing our electorate are being implemented? If you have a problem with government then you are democratically entitled and able to vote for somebody else. You have a problem with inept representation by Unionist Politicions but you're lashing out at Republicans rather then looking closer to home for a solution. It's always easier to lash out rather then admit that your own communitys representatives are the problem. Look in the mirror WASP. Examine what goes on in the Assembly. Read offical reports rather then media sound-bites. Then you might understand where your problems are originating. If that is truly how you feel then go get them guns. And how do you plan on paying for them? Who are you going to get them off BTW? The British Government and the (Aparthide) South Africans have seismically shifted their positions since you got weapons from them before. The Israelis are part of the Wests War on Terror so they're hardly going to facilitate modern day terrorism in the post 9/11 era. You have your views and I have mine but if you can't even see the provocative nature of sinn fein concerning the PUL community and the games they are playing then I don't know what will make you see. Thankfully the Unionist Leadership doesn't agree with you. PLus they were backed in their stance by the vast vast majority of the Unionist electorate. I don't think so Setenta, the loyalist community were promised by SF, a new northern Ireland not a further push towards a UI. That will happen when a referendum says so and not before, that was set in stone. We were promised equality of esteem. The moment they took power, (despite the referendum agreement) wherever they have taken it, they have immediately begun a de-britishing of that area, and a greening of it. The removal of staues to the war dead, and memorials to the dead of the recent troubles, Were first on their hit list. Having lilies in the halls of Stormont in memory of dead terrorists was what they were more intersted in. Strengthinging cross border institutions, and creating new ones. That has been their only interest. Ask for something to be done for victims and it is stymied by SF. They have had no change of heart, only a change of tactics. |
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Post by earl on Apr 18, 2008 14:43:59 GMT
WASP, can you show me just one thing that Sinn Féin have done since the Assembly started up that we weren't crystal clear about our intentions on before it happened? Because the fact is the vast vast majority of Unionist people voted for a return to devolution by voting for the UUP and DUP. They were both well aware about what was in our manifesto and on our agenda for government. What Sinn Féin are doing in government was well advertised in advance so why are you surprised now that our plans for representing our electorate are being implemented? If you have a problem with government then you are democratically entitled and able to vote for somebody else. You have a problem with inept representation by Unionist Politicions but you're lashing out at Republicans rather then looking closer to home for a solution. It's always easier to lash out rather then admit that your own communitys representatives are the problem. Look in the mirror WASP. Examine what goes on in the Assembly. Read offical reports rather then media sound-bites. Then you might understand where your problems are originating. If that is truly how you feel then go get them guns. And how do you plan on paying for them? Who are you going to get them off BTW? The British Government and the (Aparthide) South Africans have seismically shifted their positions since you got weapons from them before. The Israelis are part of the Wests War on Terror so they're hardly going to facilitate modern day terrorism in the post 9/11 era. Thankfully the Unionist Leadership doesn't agree with you. PLus they were backed in their stance by the vast vast majority of the Unionist electorate. I don't think so Setenta, the loyalist community were promised by SF, a new northern Ireland not a further push towards a UI. That will happen when a referendum says so and not before, that was set in stone. We were promised equality of esteem. The moment they took power, (despite the referendum agreement) wherever they have taken it, they have immediately begun a de-britishing of that area, and a greening of it. The removal of staues to the war dead, and memorials to the dead of the recent troubles, Were first on their hit list. Having lilies in the halls of Stormont in memory of dead terrorists was what they were more intersted in. Strengthinging cross border institutions, and creating new ones. That has been their only interest. Ask for something to be done for victims and it is stymied by SF. They have had no change of heart, only a change of tactics. And, just as a matter of interest, what exactly have the unionist politicians done in your opinion (or general opinion amongst your community)? |
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Post by earl on Apr 18, 2008 14:58:10 GMT
More mask slippage there WASP. You are a terrorist lover. You support murder. What a hypocrite. For years you've been bleeting on about SF/IRA and yet, you fully support Loyalist terrorism.
In your blind sectarian hatred and double-standards, you don't even see the point of the article, and what's plainly obvious, Loyalist guns are now more of a threat to your own community than ours. But if you want to keep your community back in the dark ages, that's your business.
Do you think any investment will set up in the lawless, bullet-ridden drug fuelled streets within the Loyalist terrorists domains, or set up somewhere more safe, like a nice quiet nationalist street?
Loyalists are as big a threat to us as the AK totting gangs of Limerick, now that they don't have the British establishment backing them. Maybe they do need to kick it off to get put back in their box. Permanently. And it'll be their British buddies that'll do it too.
Can you answer me this, what do you mean by 'True Loyalist'?
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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 16:12:53 GMT
This is a funny way to word things setanta and you know fine rightly the type of things I am on about, some of which have been covered in this forum on various topics.
Setanta was the things that we have discussed to do with sinn fein creating and maintaining tensions, searching the net to see if they would be offended etc etc on their manifesto along with thier spin and lies. Harry and I both made it crystal clear to you about sinn fein lies and spin in Ballymena for example.
While I cannot speak for all Unionists but I would say that those who supported devolution thought that changes would really be made and a true and proper respectful peace would be brought about. Instead alot of the time tensions are increasing and sinn fein constantly provoke the Unionist community with theire idiotic ridiculous double standards. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, even some of those from your ownside here have said much the same on certain issues.
No setanta you are wrong here, I am lashing out at republicans because it is republicans who are doing these things to my community not Unionist politicians. Regardless whether Unionist leaders are crap or not, sinn fein is in government to represent all the people not just the ourselves alone type thinking bullshit.
No setanta, sinn fein and their ilk are the problem, although there may be some amongst their ranks that see what sinn fein are doing and perhaps would rather they didn't. My own reps are the problem for not playing sinn fein at their own game and being so cosy n government with terrorists, their supporters and there leaders. They have also failed the victims who are still suffering while they sit down with those who murdered/planned/supported the murder of their loved ones.
I can see and clear very clearly what sf are doing and saying unless of course you think they are being dubbed.
Why would I do that now setanta, did you buy guns for the ira, where did you get the money from?
who did you get yours off?
yeh yeh the same brits that jailed countless loyalists , saved countless republican lives etc etc.
Your post about Unionist support for Unionist leaders etc, I think you would need to look at the timeline of events, what the dup said to make them the biggest party, just look at what I posted about the TUV leader and then look at what many Unionists are saying now to do with the dup. Perhaps no Unionist should vote in the next election.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 16:29:34 GMT
Wow what a post from our local mind reader, first of all I have made my points clear and my opinions. Let me remind you that it is you who constantly defend the ira and then cry 'how many fucking times do I have to say I do not support the ira' blah blah when your sympathetic and ira supportive posts are pointed out. Let me also remind you that most if not all Unionists here have noticed your quick defence of the ira so maybe it should be your own mask you should worry about.
Maybe if you actually read my posts you will see exactly what I said about certain loyalists and what they can do but then again those green tinted ira loving shades of yours won't let you see past it. Wander why you never pointed out any blind sectarian hatred to the ira loving supporters on here? Maybe your sympathies make you think the ira are not sectarian and only loyalists on this site and elsewhere can be described as having sectarian hatred. Perhaps I should remind you that I have had quite a few run ins with loyalists including Harry on this site about there support for certain loyalist actions, I think both harry and setanta could verify this.
Nationalist streets will hardly be safe if what I think could happen does happen. Anyway your beloved ira bombed mainly Unionist towns for years while mainly ignoring nationalist towns so wrecked towns during the troubles didn't wreck the Protestant Unionist and Loyalist spirit and that was for over 30 years so I don't think we should have too much to worry about if this happened.
Oh the old British establishment routine again, well AGAIN look at your own gov which had a onetime prime minister arrested on suspician of gun running and a gov that provided a safe haven to cowardly bastards who carried out countless sectarian attacks.
Not the one that claims to be a loyalist while peddling drugs, bullying and terrorisizng their own community epsecially those who fall foul of them etc etc. I think the jist of my post should have explained what I meant.
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Post by earl on Apr 18, 2008 16:51:09 GMT
Yes WASP, I support the IRA...  All you are trying to do is deflect attention. You're true colours are on show now. I'm not going to continue with this as quite frankly, this is not worth a second of my time. My convictions are clear for all to see. If I were an PIRA supporter, much of what I've said on this forum would not make sense. I see no reason to lie on these forums either. If I were a PIRA supporter, I wouldn't be kicked from here, just as your terrorist-loving ass won't be kicked for your love of violence. Any Unionist wants to point the finger at me now and 'out' me as a PIRA supporter, now is your chance. Do you agree with WASP? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 17:33:16 GMT
At least you are using the tactics of the ira green card with trying to cause division among Unionists. Your posts contradict eachother, one minute you claim to not support the ira then you defend them in others. Oh thats right what was it you said about them about them maybe having an element of sectarianism in some of there attacks.
Please tell me what group I support, tell me the loyalist groups I have condemnd many times on these forums etc etc.
Obviously you have been caught with your wild assumptions as usual, disecting posts and taking them out of context as usual, and caught with not saying the same things to those on here who supported the ira and refused to condemn there most horrific actions. But you save that for me because of what I have posted and not once did I say anything about terrorist attacks on the nationalist community that I refused to condemn.
Earl it is you who are showing your true colours here not me, any inclination that I might support loyalist paras is greeted with being accused of having sectarian hatred, yet those who fully supported the terrorists you often defend did not receive such remarks.
But I will echo your points about any Unionists who think that I have made correct points concerning your defence of the ira and lets not forget your extreme anti-Britishness etc should say so.
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Post by Harry on Apr 18, 2008 18:05:18 GMT
Its unacceptable but you will find that the demands for IRA decommissioning didn't come from Loyalism but from mainstream Unionism. Now the focus should be on mainstream Unionism to call for Loyalists to disarm and rightly so. It is hypocritical for big house Unionism to turn a blind eye to Loyalist guns but what else would you expect??
Enough should be put away for a rainy day, just in case. Just as the IRA will of done. Those should only be at the knowledge of those with Ulsters cause at heart and not the macho drug dealers posing as Loyalists.
I agree totally it is hypocritical of mainstream Unionsim not of the Loyalist groups.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 18, 2008 18:45:05 GMT
Harry while it maybe hypocritical, but the dup did call many times for all groups to disarm before and after st Andres and they condemned all terrorist attacks as well. That said how many of these organisations carry enough political clout to make up quite a porportion of the stormont gov which would include one of them being deputy or first minister?
There lies the difference as no-one would accept the uda's political wing for example having a memberas deputy minister while his partys private army is still armed to the teeth.
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Apr 19, 2008 14:37:28 GMT
More mask slippage there WASP. You are a terrorist lover. You support murder. What a hypocrite. For years you've been bleeting on about SF/IRA and yet, you fully support Loyalist terrorism. In your blind sectarian hatred and double-standards, you don't even see the point of the article, and what's plainly obvious, Loyalist guns are now more of a threat to your own community than ours. But if you want to keep your community back in the dark ages, that's your business. Do you think any investment will set up in the lawless, bullet-ridden drug fuelled streets within the Loyalist terrorists domains, or set up somewhere more safe, like a nice quiet nationalist street? Loyalists are as big a threat to us as the AK totting gangs of Limerick, now that they don't have the British establishment backing them. Maybe they do need to kick it off to get put back in their box. Permanently. And it'll be their British buddies that'll do it too. Can you answer me this, what do you mean by 'True Loyalist'? Nice quiet nationalist street? is that why sinn fein and herr adams are having so much trouble of late in 'nice quite nationalists' streets |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 19, 2008 15:52:47 GMT
Setanta that is simply a ridiculous remark you made to bilk about everything being orange before some greening in reply to bilks post.
Bilk wrote 'The moment they took power, (despite the referendum agreement) wherever they have taken it, they have immediately begun a de-britishing of that area, and a greening of it.'
and your reply was
'Yeah there's some Greening. But that's because everthing was Orange before that.'
I find it hard to believe you have actually been in N.Ireland with that statement.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 21, 2008 9:05:31 GMT
Setanta have a go as my words are far from hanging me, perhaps if you re-read what I said instead of assuming as Earl done, then question me on it you will know my stance. I made my opinion clear on the matter and I made it clear many times that my opinions have hardened on certain issues.
You say everything that sf is pursuing is legitimate, does it matter that it is highly offensive and provocative and downright childish and idiotic?? (some of it that is).
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