lochy
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by lochy on Apr 4, 2007 21:52:22 GMT
Maybe instead we should hold N.Ireland internationals at sectarian hotbeds like the Brandywell and Solitude. Well why not. they hold them at the sectarian hotbed that is Windsor Park. Perhaps then we could have parity of esteem and all Norn Iron fans of whatever creed can receive sectarian abuse. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 4, 2007 23:15:43 GMT
But then again why would we hold them at Solitude or whatever because if memory serves me right, nationalists don't support N.Ireland according to AFD, that is apart from friends of his who have been going to see them the last number of years.
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Post by Harry on Apr 5, 2007 7:00:58 GMT
Maybe instead we should hold N.Ireland internationals at sectarian hotbeds like the Brandywell and Solitude. Well why not. they hold them at the sectarian hotbed that is Windsor Park. Perhaps then we could have parity of esteem and all Norn Iron fans of whatever creed can receive sectarian abuse. When was the last time you were at a N.Ireland match a windsor park mate??? |
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lochy
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by lochy on Apr 5, 2007 21:05:44 GMT
Well why not. they hold them at the sectarian hotbed that is Windsor Park. Perhaps then we could have parity of esteem and all Norn Iron fans of whatever creed can receive sectarian abuse. When was the last time you were at a N.Ireland match a windsor park mate??? It was a wee joke, but read The irish News today. A catholic wrote in about his experience. He is an ROI supporter and went out of curiosity. It was great until the score of the ROI match was announced. He said there was a chorus of boos and a few shouts of "fenian bastards". The gist of it was is that there has been very good moves on behalf of the IFA against sectarianism, but sectarianism is still bubbling under the surface. I own a southern registered car. How would that be treated if I parked it outside windsor park to attend a match? |
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Post by Harry on Apr 6, 2007 16:33:15 GMT
When was the last time you were at a N.Ireland match a windsor park mate??? It was a wee joke, but read The irish News today. A catholic wrote in about his experience. He is an ROI supporter and went out of curiosity. It was great until the score of the ROI match was announced. He said there was a chorus of boos and a few shouts of "fenian bastards". The gist of it was is that there has been very good moves on behalf of the IFA against sectarianism, but sectarianism is still bubbling under the surface. I own a southern registered car. How would that be treated if I parked it outside windsor park to attend a match? Booing republic, no problem with that at all, thats not sectarian. England and wales get the same treatment. Shouts of fenian bastards, totally wrong, unjustifiable and hopefully those responsible will of been reported and hopefully receive life bans from N.ireland games. Massive efforts are being made and i've been attending N.I games since i was about 11 so for around 15 years and the difference between now and back when i started is unbelievable. We used to go and it would be a complete loyalist night, the sash etc etc would be the songs we would be singing and it was a complete no go area for nationalists. Not now, things have changed and they have changed for the better. Still songs about one team in Ireland, stand up for the ulstermen etc but they aren't sectarian and i'm proud to sing them ;D Regarding your car etc well thats a dodgy one, things on the streets outside are still no better, 2 sides still battle with each other and it may be possible that someone may not like your plate, but hey its n.Ireland and you have to expect these things still cos unfortunately we haven't rid ourselves of sectarianism in the estates. |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 6, 2007 17:52:45 GMT
Mmm but English registared cars would not be subjected to the same treatment if parked near or outside Casement Park in nationalist West Belfast. How come the difference? Surely if as you suggest both sides are the same why does the car smashing not occur in equal numbers in both areas?
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Post by Wasp on Apr 6, 2007 20:47:34 GMT
Mmm but English registared cars would not be subjected to the same treatment if parked near or outside Casement Park in nationalist West Belfast. How come the difference? Surely if as you suggest both sides are the same why does the car smashing not occur in equal numbers in both areas? No offence but you do talk crap sometimes or else you are rather naive. One of the few things that I have witnessed in the South towards discrimination/sectarianism or whatever was when a while back my mate who was driving his car got verbal abuse such as fuck off back up north. Thing is although he had a northern registration, he is from the republic and he is a Catholic. These things can happen anywhere anytime, so how can you say what would be subjected to what and where. Is there mindless bigots filled with hate in nationalist west Belfast, east Belfast, the Shankhill, Sandy Row, Ballymena, Larne, Dunloy, Coleraine, Londonderry etc that all to often need very little prompting to take part in violence against people or property?? Of course there is. English reg cars have been damaged outside windsor too and other areas after an international game between England and N.Ireland. Now another point of why English cars wouldn't be attacked (according to you) in nationalist west Belfast would probably be they attack enough Englishmen with their stones and petrol bombs etc, or even drag two soldiers and strip and beat them to death. Or maybe using nurses as bait to kill a few Scottish soldiers etc. Leaving English cars aside why exactly could Linfield not goto solitude?? When it comes to your view of nationalist west Belfast take the goggles off and remove the halo. |
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lochy
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by lochy on Apr 6, 2007 22:22:23 GMT
Mmm but English registared cars would not be subjected to the same treatment if parked near or outside Casement Park in nationalist West Belfast. How come the difference? Surely if as you suggest both sides are the same why does the car smashing not occur in equal numbers in both areas? No offence but you do talk crap sometimes or else you are rather naive. One of the few things that I have witnessed in the South towards discrimination/sectarianism or whatever was when a while back my mate who was driving his car got verbal abuse such as f**k off back up north. Thing is although he had a northern registration, he is from the republic and he is a Catholic. These things can happen anywhere anytime, so how can you say what would be subjected to what and where. Is there mindless bigots filled with hate in nationalist west Belfast, east Belfast, the Shankhill, Sandy Row, Ballymena, Larne, Dunloy, Coleraine, Londonderry etc that all to often need very little prompting to take part in violence against people or property?? Of course there is. English reg cars have been damaged outside windsor too and other areas after an international game between England and N.Ireland. Now another point of why English cars wouldn't be attacked (according to you) in nationalist west Belfast would probably be they attack enough Englishmen with their stones and petrol bombs etc, or even drag two soldiers and strip and beat them to death. Or maybe using nurses as bait to kill a few Scottish soldiers etc. Leaving English cars aside why exactly could Linfield not goto solitude?? When it comes to your view of nationalist west Belfast take the goggles off and remove the halo. Your friend was unlucky. I drove an English reg car in the south for 3 months and never had any problems. Parked it at the train station every day(where about 15% of the cars had northern registrations) and not one hint of a problem. Honestly, I have never heard of any southerner saying to anyone to fuck off up north or anything remotely similar. Where I live, the local politicians are falling over themselves as there are a lot of Northerners about and votes are important. Fianna Fail have a special section in the leaflet I got about NI. Northerners are extremely welcome. As I said, your friend was very very unlucky. The exception rather than the norm. |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 7, 2007 0:10:58 GMT
Harry you seem to be taking this very personally. And after you explained your boyhood trips to Windsor Park it is perhaps understandable.
I did mention cars with southern registrations being damaged outside of Windsor Park prior to Lochy. And the reason I did was because I had read a PSNI crime report that made mention of car damage outside of Windsor, in relation to southern reg cars. It was online, but where to locate that report eludes me at this time.
But I doubt very much that even showing any report you would be able to look at this objectively. This is not an attack on your boyhood memories, this is trying to understand the divisions within our society. First we must admit that they exist.
The Andersonstown News did an article on the recent match, the journalist estimated that 3% of the crowd were Catholic/Nationalist, and while I find those figures to be guesses and untrust worthy is to miss the point. They are not that far from the truth.
Both UTV and BBC did pieces before the match on the Swede supporters and support for Norn Iron on the Falls road. They interviewed the Swede supporters who could not understand why everyone in the bar was supporting their team!?
I have no doubt that progress have been made to rid Windsor of sectarianism, but that progress is only in the very early stages.
And it is seen as such a hotbed of sectarianism that the only real answer is to build a new stadium and begin afresh. To enable the IFA to build on a new solid foundation instead of trying to convert the Linfield core.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 7, 2007 20:31:07 GMT
Lochy I hope you didn't read my post wrong. I know he was unlucky, the joke of the whole thing was that he said they must have smelt my orange blood etc. They were dickheads in the sameway their are dickheads like that in every country. Quite a number of N.Ireland people drive English reg cars, probably mainly because they are that bit cheaper so there is a good chance if you attack an English reg car, you may very well have attacked someone from N.Irelands car.
Anyone who damages a southern reg car is the exact same as these dickheads. Apart from being complete idiots for doing it in the first place, don't they realize quite a few people buy cars in the south depending on the exchange rate etc and then reregister them up here. So there is also the chance that they are infact attacking someone from N.Irelands car as well.
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Post by Harry on Apr 8, 2007 11:55:45 GMT
AFD i take it personally because i attend as many games as i possibly can. I know the changes that have happened, i have witnessed th change in atmosphere from a hostile loyalist enviornment to a more family orientated event.
If i said sectarianism has been completely eradicated i would be a liar or completely naive. I've no doubts small pockets of fans still bear the same grudges and have no desire to see N.Ireland football become more inclusive but when i tell you that these fans are now a very tiny minority you won't believe me becuase you read the paper or something else which says otherwise.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 8, 2007 16:07:31 GMT
It is not a case of not believing you Harry. Everybody tells the story based on their own personal bias. What I am trying to do is to look at each situation objectively and must amass all the evidence and various reports and each person must make their own judgement.
I believe you when you say that vast improvements have been made in making that sectarian element shrink in size. We may differ as to what that size is.
I am not sure if you agree that 3-5% of those attending the Sweden match were from the nationalist community. I think that figure is close to the truth and I also think that there are two reasons why it is so low. One of those reasons is the sectarian element and the fear and suspision that exists in both communities. The other reason is a bit more complex and will distract for now.
So while I recognise the advances made at Windsor I am not willing to accept that those advances are at the logical conclusion and a lot more work needs to be done before nationalists will have that fear factor removed from the equation.
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Post by Harry on Apr 8, 2007 19:41:46 GMT
It is not a case of not believing you Harry. Everybody tells the story based on their own personal bias. What I am trying to do is to look at each situation objectively and must amass all the evidence and various reports and each person must make their own judgement. I believe you when you say that vast improvements have been made in making that sectarian element shrink in size. We may differ as to what that size is. I am not sure if you agree that 3-5% of those attending the Sweden match were from the nationalist community. I think that figure is close to the truth and I also think that there are two reasons why it is so low. One of those reasons is the sectarian element and the fear and suspision that exists in both communities. The other reason is a bit more complex and will distract for now. So while I recognise the advances made at Windsor I am not willing to accept that those advances are at the logical conclusion and a lot more work needs to be done before nationalists will have that fear factor removed from the equation. In all honesty buddy i have no idea what percentage would be nationalist but i wouldn't argue with a figure like you said. Problem is buddy is that most nationalists see the ROI as their team and choose to follow them. We will never change that no matter what we do at windsor. If however you tell me as a republican that you could see more nationalists turning up and supporting NI even over the ROI then please tell me your views on how we could acheive this at windsor?? Honestly i want to hear how you believe we could increase nationalists and then at least i can tell you from our perspective if i think it could ever work  |
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Post by Jim on Apr 8, 2007 21:09:39 GMT
Mmm but English registared cars would not be subjected to the same treatment if parked near or outside Casement Park in nationalist West Belfast. How come the difference? Surely if as you suggest both sides are the same why does the car smashing not occur in equal numbers in both areas? Cuz theres more Irish in England then English |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 8, 2007 23:08:48 GMT
But sure AFD has Catholic friends who going by his posts may also be nationalist that have been attending N.Ireland internationals for a number of years who according to him had to pretend to be Protestant. This would then obviously increase that percentage if you included those nationalists who pretended to be Protestants. Then again going by his posts nationalists wouldn't support N.I football team as they would be prostituting themselves out. Or maybe I have interpreted AFD's posts incorrectly. Perhaps he could shed some light on his friends who have been attending N.I internationals, are they nationalists as well as Catholic, or are they Unionists?
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