Garvaghy Residents Dragging Their Feet

[Harry]

Garvaghy residents 'dragging their feet'





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View GalleryBy Philip Bradfield
THE Parades Commission has publicly criticised nationalist Garvaghy Road protestors for failing to respond to mediation offers with the Orange Order over Drumcree.

The move is seen by the Orangemen as a significant change in the commission's position, explicitly putting the onus for change on the Garvaghy Road Residents' Coalition (GRRC) for the first time in the 10-year dispute.

While praising the Orange Order's willingness to engage in dialogue, the commission this week pointedly draws attention to the fact it was the GRRC's "long-held position that it would wish to see direct, face-to-face dialogue".

In light of that position, the commission was "concerned" that it had not received a response from the GRRC to its offers.

The last time the Orange Order walked down the Garvaghy Road in Portadown was in 1997 but, since nationalists' objections to the march escalated, there has been little prospect of a return.

The Order currently submits an application to walk the road on a weekly basis but eyebrows were raised this week when, for the first time, they received a different response from the commission to their weekly application.

It read: "The commission has held a significant number of meetings with both sides over the past eighteen months and has written to both sides outlining its understanding of the issues and of how progress can be made," says the commission's latest determination.

"Portadown District LOL No1 has replied to the commission largely accepting the commission's understanding of its position and re-affirming the Lodge's willingness to enter into direct dialogue. The commission understands that this letter has been copied to the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition.

"To date the commission has not received a response from the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition. This is of some concern to the commission in view of the GRRC's long-held position that it would wish to see direct, face-to-face dialogue as the only way of reaching an agreed outcome to the Drumcree issue.

"While the commission subscribes to the view that dialogue is the only acceptable way to resolve the situation the commission is disappointed that it has not yet been possible to begin such a process at this time. It is the commission's hope that such a process will begin in the future."

Portadown District Master of the Orange Order, Darryl Hewitt, feels he has finally gotten through to the commission, after the Order made a dramatic U-turn 12 months ago and appealed for face-to-face talks.

"It is reassuring that the Parades Commission have finally realised where this process is being delayed," he said yesterday. "It will be interesting to see how they deal with it."

A spokesman for the Parades Commission emphasised that the wording of the latest determination was not accidental.

"The commission spent a lot of time getting this language just right to as to ensure it accurately reflects the views of the commission," he said.

With GRRC leader Brendan McKenna having resigned from Sinn Fein earlier this year and public indications from the DUP and republicans that they would like to resolve parading disputes, expectations of a solution to the Garvaghy Road dispute are rising in some quarters.

Mr McKenna was last night not available for comment.

[earl]

There should be no stalling. If the OO are finally willing to talk to the residents, then the residents should return the favour. Maybe the residents are giving the OO a taste of their own medicine when it comes to feet dragging towards talks on this issue! The OO did it for ten years, so another month wouldn't kill them! I'd say this'll be cleared up in time for next years march though. It'd have to be at this stage.

[Wasp]

They have been willing to talk for over a year now and still no progress. I thought this was what nationalists in the area were holding out for? Obviously it seems it was just an excuse because they knew rather thought the OO wouldn't agree to face to face talks.

Recently in this forum if memory serves me correctly I was constantly told about the OO double standards because they wouldn't hold face to face talks. Well this article suggests that this accusation was wrong because they have indeed wanted face to face talks for at least a year now.

Ah poor McKenna, what excuse is he going to use now?

[Harry]

It is rather worrying that a group who cried out for talks have been unable to make any movement for nearly 12 months when then chance arose. The OO should of been doing this years ago but thankfully now they are and it starts to look a little like a bluff has been called and the residents are unsure of how strong their hand really looks now

[earl]

wasp said:

They have been willing to talk for over a year now and still no progress. I thought this was what nationalists in the area were holding out for? Obviously it seems it was just an excuse because they knew rather thought the OO wouldn't agree to face to face talks.

I hope that you have some further insight into the current situation up there, rather than basing an opinion along tribal lines. If you do have further information on this subject, please share it with the rest of us.

Recently in this forum if memory serves me correctly I was constantly told about the OO double standards because they wouldn't hold face to face talks. Well this article suggests that this accusation was wrong because they have indeed wanted face to face talks for at least a year now.

Ah poor McKenna, what excuse is he going to use now?

Well, over a decade of leading figures of the OO talking in newspapers, radio and TV stating quite bluntly their position, would suggest otherwise WASP. Unless you are trying to say that the OO was lying all that time. But why would they lie about not wanting to talk to residents groups when they actually did and it was the residents who were stalling? Your logic is flawed and based purely on emotion rather than stone cold fact.

Behind the scenes, other negotiations had already begun. Members of the Mediation Network for Northern Ireland had been brought in to aid negotiations between the residents’ group and the police since great distrust of the police exists in Catholic communities. At the same time the police talked to Orangemen and unionist politicians who refused to talk to the representative of the residents’ group.
cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/parade/bryan/bryan00.htm

Paisley has declared that the Orange Order will be 'selling out Protestantism' if it negotiates with residents' groups.
pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr210/horgan.htm

I could go on, and on, and on. There's enough press out there to prove the acusation is fact.

[Wasp]

Actually Earl the accusation in previous years is fact but in the last yeaR OR SO the same accusations are no longer fact. I also agree with the OO to an extent for not talking to the likes of McKenna who only is interested in fueling the flames rather than a peaceful solution.

On your first comment about me having further insight could you please explain what I said that wasn't true???

I wrote "They have been willing to talk for over a year now and still no progress. I thought this was what nationalists in the area were holding out for? Obviously it seems it was just an excuse because they knew rather thought the OO wouldn't agree to face to face talks."

From the article Harry posted.

'While praising the Orange Order's willingness to engage in dialogue, the commission this week pointedly draws attention to the fact it was the GRRC's "long-held position that it would wish to see direct, face-to-face dialogue".

In light of that position, the commission was "concerned" that it had not received a response from the GRRC to its offers.'

So what did I say that you disagree with or want further information on?

[earl]

wasp said:

Actually Earl the accusation in previous years is fact but in the last yeaR OR SO the same accusations are no longer fact. I also agree with the OO to an extent for not talking to the likes of McKenna who only is interested in fueling the flames rather than a peaceful solution.

On your first comment about me having further insight could you please explain what I said that wasn't true???

I wrote "They have been willing to talk for over a year now and still no progress. I thought this was what nationalists in the area were holding out for? Obviously it seems it was just an excuse because they knew rather thought the OO wouldn't agree to face to face talks."

From the article Harry posted.

'While praising the Orange Order's willingness to engage in dialogue, the commission this week pointedly draws attention to the fact it was the GRRC's "long-held position that it would wish to see direct, face-to-face dialogue".

In light of that position, the commission was "concerned" that it had not received a response from the GRRC to its offers.'

So what did I say that you disagree with or want further information on?

Sorry WASP. My mistake. I've just re-read the piece as I wasn't sure of the timeframe of how long they were waiting for the residents response. It states it's been 12 months, which is more than enough time. I wasn't sure if they were only waiting a week or a month, which would be an acceptable amount of time to wait. I still stand by that this issue should be resolved by the time it's marching season next year. If it's not, then I'm in full agreement with you.

[Wasp]

No problem Earl.

[Shades40]

In the early hours of Sunday morning, 7 October two nationalist men in their 20s were set upon by a 30-strong gang of loyalists. The incident took place at Woodhouse Street, leading to Obins Street. A PSNI mobile patrol was in the area yet the crew of the vehicle refused to dismount.
Once again, the PSNI spin portrayed the incident as a fight between rival gangs. However, CCTV footage obtained by the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition shows one of the Catholic men being punched and kicked as he lay on the ground. As luck would have it neither of those injured in Sunday’s incident was badly hurt. Yet, the recent rise in sectarianism in the North Armagh town, which also saw loyalists confront Catholics as they went to church, is a worrying trend.
“‘The freedom to live free from sectarian intimidation’, promised by the Good Friday Agreement, means nothing if Portadown Catholics are threatened if they venture into Portadown town centre to socialise”, said Sinn Féin MLA John O’Dowd.

[/b]

Incidents such as this last month won't help the situation and after hundreds of years of the OO walking over Nationalists in Portadown what else did they expect, they come across as having a "we say jump you say how high" attitude.

[Wasp]

Incidents like that are disgusting but they happen all too often and all sides are guilty of it, not just loyalists. I didn't know the OO walked over nationalists in Portadown?? Is this something that nationalists done, as in lying on the street during parades so everyone of them could be walked on? Well I suppose it is another way of getting offended.

[Shades40]

[Wasp]

Now shades if you knew the story behind that picture you might let that old chip on your shoulder fall off. Why did you post that picture, please tell me?

I think you are scraping the barrel to try and back your claims.

[Harry]

shades40 said:

In the early hours of Sunday morning, 7 October two nationalist men in their 20s were set upon by a 30-strong gang of loyalists. The incident took place at Woodhouse Street, leading to Obins Street. A PSNI mobile patrol was in the area yet the crew of the vehicle refused to dismount.
Once again, the PSNI spin portrayed the incident as a fight between rival gangs. However, CCTV footage obtained by the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition shows one of the Catholic men being punched and kicked as he lay on the ground. As luck would have it neither of those injured in Sunday’s incident was badly hurt. Yet, the recent rise in sectarianism in the North Armagh town, which also saw loyalists confront Catholics as they went to church, is a worrying trend.
“‘The freedom to live free from sectarian intimidation’, promised by the Good Friday Agreement, means nothing if Portadown Catholics are threatened if they venture into Portadown town centre to socialise”, said Sinn Féin MLA John O’Dowd.

[/b]

Incidents such as this last month won't help the situation and after hundreds of years of the OO walking over Nationalists in Portadown what else did they expect, they come across as having a "we say jump you say how high" attitude. [/quote]

How does an incident like this mean that the OO are responsible?? Who the hell is responsible for the ethnic cleansing of OO halls all over N.Ireland?? Systematically destroying every trace of OO culture. The amount of attacks on OO halls is getting to be the same as Kosovo and the ethnic cleansing that went on there. It'll only be taken for so long.

[Wasp]

Start a thrend on Kosovo, Harry

.

Why didn't you then leave your comment on Kosovo at that instead of adding to it. Is it because you wanted the final say? IMO if you are telling someone to start a thread on something because it is off topic you don't continue replying to their post which is a bit hypocritical IMO.

There's no innocent side there. The KLA have ethnic cleansed the Roma and have tried to remove the last of the Serbs from their own country. The Albanians have no claim over that region that was the historic heart of Serbia. I know the Serbs treated the ethnic Albanians like crap but this treatment was been repaid with interest.

Start a thread on it Setanta. ;D ;D ;D

Let's stick to the matter at hand. Are the OO trying gain consetions before they meet the residents face to face?

In what way? I honestly don't believe they are but who knows with all what goes on from all sides.

[Harry]

There is a thread which i add to whenever a new attack on a OO hall makes the news but the trouble is that not all of them do. I didn't pick anysides in regards to Kosovo but merely related the sytematic attacks on OO halls as reaching something similar to what was going on there. Total hatred and intolerance of another faith. FFS the OO are willing to talk and haven't had any response. It wouldn't be that bad given how stubborn the OO have been in the past to get to that stage but when all these pleads etc to the media about poor down trodden people who canny leave the house and all the poor people ask for is for face to face talks it had all the hallmarks of being genuine and i just can't understand why talks are no longer important.