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Post by leeside on Feb 19, 2010 13:41:15 GMT
Common sense from an unlikely source! Loyalist leader Jackie McDonald wants Orangemen to walk away from the Garvaghy Road in Portadown — unless they can agree a parade with local residents. The shock remarks from the former UDA ‘brigadier’ comes as Northern Ireland’s politicians struggle to find a way forward on the issue of controversial parades. A DUP/Sinn Fein working group has been tasked with designing “a new and improved framework” to rule on parades and will report next week. But on the question of what should happen on the ground, UDA ‘brigadier’ McDonald has made his position clear. “People used to walk down roads where Protestants lived. “Now they want to walk down the same road where nationalists live. “It might be tradition and it might be culture, but why would you?” He said if Orangemen want to walk on the Garvaghy Road then it should be “by agreement and arrangement with the residents, without any outside interference”. Recent similar comments by Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams brought an angry response from senior DUP figures including First Minister and party leader Peter Robinson. McDonald also criticised republicans — accusing them of manipulating the parades issue, and he said Sinn Fein’s involvement with resident groups had “polluted” the atmosphere. But speaking in a wide-ranging interview for the Belfast Telegraph he argued for a “commonsense” approach. “They (Sinn Fein) manipulated that situation, and Gerard Rice did the same thing on the Ormeau Road. “If you take Sinn Fein out of the whole argument, the argument is they (the Orange Order) shouldn’t walk down the Garvaghy Road or the (lower) Ormeau Road anyway, because there are no Protestants (living there) any more. “That’s the commonsense argument, but Sinn Fein has actually polluted it.” The loyalist leader also attacked “triumphalism” linked to marching. “What I’ve seen at Garvaghy Road before, or the Ormeau Road — once they got down the road, it was triumphalism straight out. “That’s not the reason to walk down the road. “That wasn’t the reason they walked down the road 30 years ago, or 50 years ago or 100 years ago. But they’ve turned it round. “They’re not walking down the same road for the same reason. “It’s to get one up on the other community, or being there because the other community says you can’t be.” After the recent decommissioning confirming an end to wars, McDonald believes that the emphasis now should be on community building, and he plans a major conference in Sandy Row in Belfast in the near future. But he says he is against “forced integration”, and that it is too soon to think about demolishing the so-called peace walls. “It’s an ideal that everybody has and it would be a massive thing if it ever happened,” he said. But he added: “There’s 40 years of hatred and bigotry and anger and revenge. It’s going to take a long time.” That planned community conference in Sandy Row will bring under one roof leading loyalists and republicans, including Sean ‘Spike’ Murray, one of the most senior figures in the IRA’s war. The intention had been to hold the event next week, but it is being delayed to accommodate one of the key speakers. “It’s all about community development,” McDonald said. “And it’s to show everybody the two communities can work together.” www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uda-chief-tells-orange-order-to-walk-away-from-garvaghy-road-14688643.html#ixzz0fx7hqHnC |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 19, 2010 20:32:40 GMT
Think Jackie has had too many rounds of golf for my liking, what an idiot.
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Post by leeside on Feb 19, 2010 23:16:16 GMT
Why is he an idiot, WASP?
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Post by Wasp on Feb 20, 2010 16:31:44 GMT
For what he has said, this is a church parade so where is the relgious toerance from republicans as setanta himself said he would parade with muslims down through dublin but oppose Protestants taking part in a church parade because it bypasses a nationalist estate. The OO in Portadown have made many concessions and while I do not agree with there approach and dealing with the situation at times this is a main road not a winding road through an estate. Dont forget either no music is played even though only hymns are allowed and it is not a host of bands or lodges either. McKennas claim to fame is holding a family hostage while his mates blew up a charity building because the name British is on it and his hatred for the PUL community is there for all to see and hear.
McDonald is giving into the likes of McKenna which makes him a first class idiot and I will tell him what I think of his outburst when I see him.
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Post by leeside on Feb 21, 2010 19:12:13 GMT
Who said anything about Mckenna? Its McDonald's observation that makes perfect sense. Hes looking at the situation rationally which seems to be a rare trait around those parts.
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Post by Wasp on Feb 21, 2010 19:52:57 GMT
Who said anything about Mckenna? Its McDonald's observation that makes perfect sense. Hes looking at the situation rationally which seems to be a rare trait around those parts. I am saying McKenna and for some reason Jackie seems to forget that McKenna and this church parade go hand in hand. |
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Post by leeside on Feb 21, 2010 21:26:31 GMT
surely its the residents rather than Mckenna alone that object to parade, right?
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Post by Wasp on Feb 21, 2010 22:44:06 GMT
surely its the residents rather than Mckenna alone that object to parade, right? Well isnt it funny that some residents refused to show their faces in interviews with there voices dubbed for fear of attack by there own community where they said once a year for 5 mins wont harm anyone, if you dont want to see them dont look out while the parade passes. Whats even more strange is the fact the residents apparently wanted an outsider to represent them, the same outsider who is an ira terrorist so that speaks volumes for these same residents who apaprently want to be left in peace, apparently live in fear etc etc. Here is some more about their spokesperson; He served a jail term for his role in a bomb attack on an ex-serviceman's community centre in Portadown. The community centre in question catered for old soldiers, both Protestant and Catholic, who had fought with America against the Nazis in World War II, and more recently with United Nations peacekeeping forces around the world. Following the bombing Brendan McKenna was arrested, found guilty of possessing a firearm, false imprisonment and hi-jacking and later jailed for six years. The judge, a Catholic by the name of William Doyle, was later murdered by the IRA after attending Mass in a Catholic church in Belfast. Sentencing, Judge William Doyle, said that McKenna had been convicted by the "most cogent evidence" and described McKenna's offences as "horrifying". Detailed below is an article which appeared in the Belfast Telegraph in 1986: "A 24 year old Portadown man, found guilty of holding a Lurgan family hostage last year, was jailed for six years at Belfast Crown Court yesterday. Brendan McKenna of Obins Avenue, was convicted of carrying a firearm with intent, false imprisonment, and hijacking on August 5, 1981. He was jailed for six years for the firearms offence, five years for false imprisonment, and two years for hijacking. The sentences will run concurrently. The court was told that two masked men burst into the house in Churchill Park, Lurgan, and demanded the keys of the family car. A gun was produced and one of the men made off in the car while McKenna held the family of three hostage for almost three hours. The family's ordeal ended when a policeman called at their door to investigate, after the hijacked car was left unattended in the centre of the town. McKenna tried to escape when he saw the policeman, but he was caught and arrested. A green mask was found in his pocked. Judge William Doyle said he had been convicted by 'most cogent evidence' and described the offences as 'horrifying'. No evidence was called by the defence." What kind of peace loving residents who just simply want to be left alone would ask for this scumbag to be their spokesperson?? |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 21, 2010 22:46:51 GMT
Now here is some facts on Garvaghy road;
There are approximately 900 houses along the disputed 600 metre stretch of the Garvaghy Road.
Only 66 houses face directly onto the Garvaghy and Drumcree Roads.
Less than 10 houses (less that 1%) have addresses actually on the Garvaghy Road.
75% of the houses are between 100 - 600 metres away from the Garvaghy Road.
It is impossible to see the Garvaghy Road from the vast majority of the houses along it.
It was statistics similar to these compiled in 1985 and 1986 that enabled the RUC to approve the Garvaghy Road as a main route to the Orange Hall in Portadown.
The Estates Off the Garvaghy Road - The Facts
Churchill Park - Contains approximately 200 houses.
Only 5 of which face directly onto the Garvaghy Road.
The Beeches - Contains approximately 100 houses
Only 5 of which face directly onto the Garvaghy Road.
Garvaghy Park - Contains approximately 100 houses.
Only 10 of which face directly onto the Garvaghy Road
Ballyoran Park - Contains approximately 500 houses.
Only 46 of which face directly onto the Garvaghy Road and Drumcree Roads.
Now for the compromises;
Nine parades along Garvaghy Road and Obins Street have now been reduced to one - the Drumcree Church Parade.
After Drumcree 1995 as a gesture of goodwill towards the Garvaghy Road Residents the 12 July morning parade was voluntarily re-routed by the Orangemen of Portadown. This gesture was followed by demands to re-route the outward leg of the Drumcree parade.
Only ONE band takes part in the Drumcree Church Parade. In previous years several bands took part.
Bands are only allowed to play hymn tunes such as Safe in the arms of Jesus. These hymns are also played in Catholic Churches.
Since 1996 only accordion bands, accompany the District.
No music is played passing St. John's Roman Catholic Church.
No music is played whilst parading along the contentious part of the Garvaghy Road. The parade passes in silence. Residents living in the estates off the Garvaghy Road would be unaware that a parade was taking place.
Only members of Portadown District take part in the parade along the Garvaghy Road.
The parade is led by members of Portadown Ex-Servicemen's lodge. Many members fought during the Second World War against the Nazis. Others have served in the Gulf War, the Falklands Conflict and on various duties with the United Nations. Many members served in the Ulster Defence Regiment protecting all the citizens of Northern Ireland from terrorism. Brendan Mckenna was jailed for his part in the bombing of the Royal British Legion hall in Portadown in the 1980s.
Only two flags are carried in the parade - the Union Flag and the Ex-Servicemen's standard which features a portrait of Lord Mountbatten who was murdered by the IRA. A member of the Ex-servicemen's lodge served with Mountbatten during World War 2.
In 1997 Brethren paraded six abreast resulting in the parade taking just seven minutes to pass.
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Post by leeside on Feb 22, 2010 10:00:15 GMT
surely its the residents rather than Mckenna alone that object to parade, right? Well isnt it funny that some residents refused to show their faces in interviews with there voices dubbed for fear of attack by there own community where they said once a year for 5 mins wont harm anyone, if you dont want to see them dont look out while the parade passes. Whats even more strange is the fact the residents apparently wanted an outsider to represent them, the same outsider who is an ira terrorist so that speaks volumes for these same residents who apaprently want to be left in peace, apparently live in fear etc etc. Here is some more about their spokesperson; He served a jail term for his role in a bomb attack on an ex-serviceman's community centre in Portadown. The community centre in question catered for old soldiers, both Protestant and Catholic, who had fought with America against the Nazis in World War II, and more recently with United Nations peacekeeping forces around the world. Following the bombing Brendan McKenna was arrested, found guilty of possessing a firearm, false imprisonment and hi-jacking and later jailed for six years. The judge, a Catholic by the name of William Doyle, was later murdered by the IRA after attending Mass in a Catholic church in Belfast. Sentencing, Judge William Doyle, said that McKenna had been convicted by the "most cogent evidence" and described McKenna's offences as "horrifying". Detailed below is an article which appeared in the Belfast Telegraph in 1986: "A 24 year old Portadown man, found guilty of holding a Lurgan family hostage last year, was jailed for six years at Belfast Crown Court yesterday. Brendan McKenna of Obins Avenue, was convicted of carrying a firearm with intent, false imprisonment, and hijacking on August 5, 1981. He was jailed for six years for the firearms offence, five years for false imprisonment, and two years for hijacking. The sentences will run concurrently. The court was told that two masked men burst into the house in Churchill Park, Lurgan, and demanded the keys of the family car. A gun was produced and one of the men made off in the car while McKenna held the family of three hostage for almost three hours. The family's ordeal ended when a policeman called at their door to investigate, after the hijacked car was left unattended in the centre of the town. McKenna tried to escape when he saw the policeman, but he was caught and arrested. A green mask was found in his pocked. Judge William Doyle said he had been convicted by 'most cogent evidence' and described the offences as 'horrifying'. No evidence was called by the defence." What kind of peace loving residents who just simply want to be left alone would ask for this scumbag to be their spokesperson?? Fact is, the majority of the residents dont want the parade down that road without their consent. Especially since Bill Wright and his scumbag mates intimidated the police while Orange members cheered him on into forcing the march with the threat of violence down the road. Mckenna is a complete scumbag I agree. However there is also an equally scummy element in some of the orange lodges whos soul purpose it is to intimidate the residents and triumphantly march in full regalia through catholic areas to remind them of some stupid battle 300 years ago. Knowing full well that that offends the residents. |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 22, 2010 18:21:13 GMT
You know as well as I do McKenna will make sure consent is never given, the local lodge for quite a number of years now has changed it stance and offered direct talks which McKenna demanded but for some strange reason turned down. This was reported in the media and the OO were praised for there accomodation while everyone questioned McKennas stance. When did Wright force a march down the garvaghy road and I honestly wouldnt blame anyone cheering on anyone if it was against McKenna, the violence from republicans under McKenna and their obvious hatred for my community and culture etc etc. Well arent they easily offended then  The parade is not to remind residents of anything, it is a church parade, a traditional parade down a main road not through some nationalist estate and it is no different from anyother church parade that goes nowhere near any easily offended nationalist. When I see a parade I admire the colourful display, I admire the highly efficient musicians keeping in tune etc, being reminded of the boyne or anyother battle doesnt come into it when I see a parade. This church parade is the oldest Orange parade in the entire world which makes it something to even more proud of. |
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Post by leeside on Feb 22, 2010 23:45:08 GMT
Fuck McKenna. Just because hes a cunt doesnt mean that the rest of the residents dont agree with him. Im pretty sure that that 'accommodation' by the OO had some conditions that were not agreed to by the residents. Maybe you can shed some light on it as im not 100% sure.
Didnt Wright basically threaten that if the march didnt go through there would be violence nationwide? Ur all talk about hatred for ur community, what about the hatred for the Catholic, nationalist Republican community, WASP? It works both ways!! Thats the whole fucking problem up there. Ye hate each other equally!
Yes, they are. As is ur community!
Maybe u admire orange parades but the nationalist community certainly doesnt. Regardless of their fancy costumes and drum beats. To claim that its simply a church parade is utter bullshit. Its politically and religiously charged and most definitely triumphalist in nature.
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Post by Wasp on Feb 23, 2010 22:13:39 GMT
It was all posted on here a while ago, but I will look to see if I can find the links when I have time. Well that speaks volumes about many of the residents. Lets face it on bothsides there is deep hatred for the otherside and all that goes with the otherside, in republican areas anything PUL is despised and that is the true reason behind opposing any parade, the many concessions are proof of that, isnt it time someone stood tall and made a difference.
Wright or anyone else didnt have the power by threats of violence.
See my answer above which I wrote before I read this line. Hatred certainly does work bothways as I have said above.
Well up here St Paddys day is hijacked in many areas by republicans, Protestants dont feel safe or wanted when normally mixed bars and areas are turned into ira sing alongs yet I wouldnt be offended by any parade.
I am not asking nationalists to admire Orange parades even though I know many who attend parades with their families and enjoy the festivities. I met bilk 2 years ago at the 12th and I could have pointed out quite a number of catholics, many of who who are nationalists standing side by side with Protestants enjoying the parade, the 3 bars near us are all catholic owned and all packed with those out to enjoy the parade and not one jot of trouble either. Bilk can confirm what I have said. What I do ask for is compromise, religious tolerance and respect by all sides
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Post by leeside on Feb 23, 2010 23:58:42 GMT
Fact is WASP, loyalists like yourself complain about republicans not respecting and accommodating the PUL culture but after seeing myself on Calton the disgusting infantile raw hatred written about anything concerning Catholics, the Irish or Republicans suggests to me the hatred is certainly a two way thing. Respect works both ways!
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Post by Wasp on Feb 24, 2010 14:25:51 GMT
And we have every right to complain.
You cannot deny that there are also many others on PULSE that did not do as you are saying and complained about those who did. Our problem is the deep suspician, the die hard sectarian bigotry and hatred which was deepened by politicians on bothsides, both moderate and hardline. They thrived on their hatred within their communities, they bullied and contolled their communities but sadly many within these communities supported them. My volunteer work is cross community and all to often it is sad to hear what oneside says about the other, but on the otherhand I have often heard alot of positives. One young republican told me that it is great now because he has plenty of Protestant friends who he hangs out with, whom he goes to stay with them at their houses and more recently has been able to bring them to his area. Wheras before there is no way he could have brought Protestants to his home or area and also the fact he never ever knew any Protestants until he got a job across the city.
I was brought up with catholic friends and I couldnt understand why there were those who had no friends from the otherside which is one of the reasons I joined forums to get a better understanding. I believe in relgious freedom for all and I couldnt care less if you or anyone worshipped a blade of grass, that is your choice. I have been slagged on here about my faith/beliefs, my beliefs have been belittled on here as well and I dont think I ever slagged anyone for their beliefs or tried to belittle them. What I will do is discuss my beliefs, answer any questions put to me and discuss the beliefs of others, and to me that is the way it should be for everyone on here where respect is given to those with beliefs and those who have no beliefs.
I try to put this into my politics and leaving aside heated debate I think you should know that I am open to discussion especially with those that are trying to do the same. I also have enjoyed the debates we have been having and without lowering them to slagging matches hopefully we can build a better understanding of our positions.
Collina and I used to be at loggerheads and I was equally or even more to blame for those moments, but look ar how we normally debate now because I see collina in a different light, the condemning of republican violence means alot and it is the likes of Collina that people from both communities should be talking with while leaving out the extremists who want to keep the fear and mistrust.
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