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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 11:39:45 GMT
But we don't know if she was or was not an informer, which is why I made that post. You only go by what the family deny because you automatically are against the IRA in every way.
That happened at a time when this country didnt know what being civilised was, it was a murder for political reasons weither you like that or not, you don't have to agree with the murder but you need to accept if this country was normal like England it wouldnt have happened, so it was a product of a unique situation.
Domestic violence isnt, full stop. they aren't comparable in any way.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 12:01:12 GMT
You are only going by what the ira say because of your support for them. Even if she was, did she deserve what happened to her? The fact there is no proof of the ira allegations, the fact they are well known to force confessions out of people by means of sadistic torture even if they were innocent and the fact the ira are hardly the tellers of the truth would you not say there was a bigger possibility of her being innocent and her crime was to help a dying soldier. There is no situation or no excuse for what happened to this woman, none at all. Those who done it were nothing but women abusing, cowardly murderous bastards. WTF?  So it is ok to for men to order and abduct and execute a 4ft 10 mother of ten INFRONT OF HER KIDS because she 'alledgedly' went against there organisation which was carrying out a brutal sectarian campaign but its not ok for a woman to be slapped if her and her husband have an arguement??? Unbelievable and sick TBH. |
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 12:23:41 GMT
I'm not going by anyones word I'm going by lack of evidence to do with the case, no one really knows if she was an informer apart from her handler, if she had one. Neither of us are in a position to say what she was unless you are in Special Branch or something and can back it up that she wasnt. There was a reason why she was killed, no one knows that reason apart from the IRA and the Special Branch/RUC. I don't know it, you don't know it. We only know what we read in the papers and by word of mouth.
Two different situations, completely, and two different situations accordin to the laws and the courts.
It has fuck all to do with wife beating.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 12:48:54 GMT
So if she was an informer then it was ok or maybe just wrong?
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 12:50:49 GMT
No it wasnt OK they should have looked at the situation, I've no love for informers and touts but she was a mother of 10.
But its got fuck all to do with this topic and fuck all to do with wife beating and fuck all to do with me or any other republican that think wife beaters are plebs.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 13:03:41 GMT
No-one can hardly condemn a wife beater then refuse to condemn what happened to Jean.
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 15:04:55 GMT
I havent condemned or condoned it. Actually looking at my post its closer to condemning it.
You're only out looking for a wind up, got fuck all to do with gypsies and got fuck all to do with wife beating.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 16:23:42 GMT
I am far from looking for a wind up or anything like it. Jim if you feel agrieved at this the latter posts having fuck all to do with the gypsies then maybe you could apply that to all threads where most go way off topic.
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Mar 20, 2008 17:04:42 GMT
What has that go to do with travellers? What happened in the troubles is different to what happens in the home, I don't know a lot about McConville and don't really care its not my worry, but as far as I know she was abducted for being a tout, rightly or wrongly I leave up to individual judgement, I say wrongly. Thats fuck all to do with Republicans and any that may be wife beaters. Really i thought it was because she had had the audacity to help a british soldier that had been shot and was dieing in her doorway, of course it did'nt help that she had been a prod to before she was married |
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Post by earl on Mar 20, 2008 17:38:33 GMT
It was domestic to the extent of republican housekeeping in their area. Apart from that it is wrong for a man to slap a woman and it is highly condemned, but not so when men abduct a woman infront of her kids, probably torture her, execute her and don't give her children a body to bury or a grave to go to. IMO no republican can moan about anyone lifting a hand to any woman as they are just showing and proving the hypocrites that they are. Like ask a republican do you condemn a woman getting a slap, and then ask about her being abducted and executed, my mind boggles. IMO, no loyalist can moan about fascism, while loyalists are involved in racist attacks on immigrants in the north, giving fascist salutes in football games, involved with C18 and working with neo-nazi's in Germany. |
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 17:59:17 GMT
It was domestic to the extent of republican housekeeping in their area. Apart from that it is wrong for a man to slap a woman and it is highly condemned, but not so when men abduct a woman infront of her kids, probably torture her, execute her and don't give her children a body to bury or a grave to go to. IMO no republican can moan about anyone lifting a hand to any woman as they are just showing and proving the hypocrites that they are. Like ask a republican do you condemn a woman getting a slap, and then ask about her being abducted and executed, my mind boggles. IMO, no loyalist can moan about fascism, while loyalists are involved in racist attacks on immigrants in the north, giving fascist salutes in football games, involved with C18 and working with neo-nazi's in Germany. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D What a childish post, give yourself a pat in the back and then boast that your ice cream is bigger than everyone elses.  |
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 18:07:23 GMT
What has that go to do with travellers? What happened in the troubles is different to what happens in the home, I don't know a lot about McConville and don't really care its not my worry, but as far as I know she was abducted for being a tout, rightly or wrongly I leave up to individual judgement, I say wrongly. Thats fuck all to do with Republicans and any that may be wife beaters. Really i thought it was because she had had the audacity to help a british soldier that had been shot and was dieing in her doorway, of course it did'nt help that she had been a prod to before she was married Like I said, it wasnt a normal situation, so it cant be compared to wife beating. Thats my entire point, the reason why she was killed is not what we are even arguing about in the first place it just cropped up. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 20, 2008 20:51:26 GMT
Indeed and personally even if she was a tout I think the IRA made a morally wrong decision and the furtherest they should have was ostracising her from the community if there was a reasonable degree of proof that she was a tout. It was impossible to be absolutely sure about the situation quite possibly given the whole cloak and dagger atmosphere surrounding things like that. I've no love for touts or informers they are a bane on Irish history but this was an occassion when moral restraint should have been shown.
That said WASP you're a big fan of the British Army are you not. Well, I'm reading a book on Italian Second World War history - one of the less flattering moments is the plan cooked up by the British high command in Naples to demoralize the Germans in late 1943 and early 1944. This involved picking up any young woman who could not prove she had a full-time occupation and labelling them as prostitutes and transporting them across German lines where they were inducted into military brothels as the Italian police operated on both sides of the battle lines and passed women like this on to the Germans on that side of the line. Bearing in mind most industry in Naples was fucked by this point most young girls or women were unable to show they did have a steady job or means of income and many young girls ended up infected with syphilis or as outcasts from their own community and had to carry on been prostitutes even after the war as they were considered shamed. With that in mind we must logically suppose that you can't condemn violence or abuse of women as well mustn't we? In fairness some of the officers wanted nothing to do with it - you can kind of guess what happened to their career prospects after the war...
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 22:57:44 GMT
Touts and informers have been a bane on Irish history??? Apart from the fact whether we agree or not many many lives were saved because of them. Funny how those with something to hide in their part or support of anything criminal are the ones that shout the loudest about those who got criminals caught or done the criminals damage.
Why say I am and then ask if I am??
Now that was not on, I know desperate times can call for desperate measures but this is totally wrong, if it's true that is.
My heart goes out to those women who are used and abused by anyone, take the brothels here in which republicans and loyalists had a share. Disgusting.
WTF are you on about now??
Good for them for standing against this and shame on them who ordered it.
Anyway what was the point of this post, I have answered it clearly. Don't tell me it is because you have been shown to fail to condemn the abduction, probable torture and execution of a 4 ft 10" mother of ten, yet wouldn't piss on a man who slaps a woman.
Bit of advice don't tell too many ladies that you won't condemn the butcher of an unarmed defensless mother, they might think of you as every bit as bad if not worse than those who abuse women both mentally and physically.
It's not exactly something to be proud of now, is it??
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Post by He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness on Mar 21, 2008 15:37:03 GMT
It was domestic to the extent of republican housekeeping in their area. Apart from that it is wrong for a man to slap a woman and it is highly condemned, but not so when men abduct a woman infront of her kids, probably torture her, execute her and don't give her children a body to bury or a grave to go to. IMO no republican can moan about anyone lifting a hand to any woman as they are just showing and proving the hypocrites that they are. Like ask a republican do you condemn a woman getting a slap, and then ask about her being abducted and executed, my mind boggles. IMO, no loyalist can moan about fascism, while loyalists are involved in racist attacks on immigrants in the north, giving fascist salutes in football games, involved with C18 and working with neo-nazi's in Germany. I am a loyalist, i am not racist, i have never given any kind of salute that can be remotley seens as a nazi salute, i dispise the BNP and C18 and have never worked with neo-nazis in germany or anywere else, so i will 'moan' as i see fit, of course its unsuprizing to see you try the old generlizing loyalists trick, Its amazing how even the most aleegedy liberal republicans/nationalists can get so offened by comments made against a terroist orginization that is the IRA |
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So it is ok to for men to order and abduct and execute a 4ft 10 mother of ten INFRONT OF HER KIDS because she 'alledgedly' went against there organisation which was carrying out a brutal sectarian campaign but its not ok for a woman to be slapped if her and her husband have an arguement??? 
