How many people in the south care???

[Jim]

Not a chance in 9 years mate. Being realistic, 20 to 30.

There is no deadline, no date I or anyone can set, not even Gerry Adams could say. It could be another 50 years for all it takes.

Increasingly, one of the most realistic things going is the dissolution of the union when Scotland does break off (and it will...), England wont want a nagging kicking baby to take care off.

[Republic]

jim said:

Not a chance in 9 years mate. Being realistic, 20 to 30.

There is no deadline, no date I or anyone can set, not even Gerry Adams could say. It could be another 50 years for all it takes.

Increasingly, one of the most realistic things going is the dissolution of the union when Scotland does break off (and it will...), England wont want a nagging kicking baby to take care off.

Setanta 9 is way off base!!! Look at how slow things move in NI-its nearly ten years since the GFA. We arent going to see unification within that same time frame!

I think 20 to 30 would be optimistic Jim. 50+ may be more realistic.


But you have hit on the key point IMO with the reference to scotland.

If scotland leaves, it would have all kinds of implications for unionism.

England would certainly struggle to justify (or want) a union with NI imo.

Where I would differ from you is the possibility of scottish independence- I dont think it is as certain as you do.

[Jim]

If Scotland leaves the unionism cannot exist. I know more unionists that favour Scotland over England, than visa versa, the union is Scotland and England (wales being part of England legally), Ireland/Northern Ireland is just part of that picture, when one of the two bigger home nations leave, the union is dissolved in theory. In practise England will inherit most things having 10x the population of Scotland, NI and Wales put toghether, and its ironic Scotland will inherit the nuclear arsenal and etc. But even in the event of all that there will always be a lot of co-opeation between the two new countries on a closer scale than you would get with France or another country in Europe.

The only realistic option is to then join the Republic, because I have no interest in an independant Northern Ireland sucking up to England and America for investment because its too stuck up to join the Republic which has everything we'll need and that we can contribute fairly too.

[Republic]

jim said:

If Scotland leaves the unionism cannot exist. I know more unionists that favour Scotland over England, than visa versa, the union is Scotland and England (wales being part of England legally), Ireland/Northern Ireland is just part of that picture, when one of the two bigger home nations leave, the union is dissolved in theory. In practise England will inherit most things having 10x the population of Scotland, NI and Wales put toghether, and its ironic Scotland will inherit the nuclear arsenal and etc. But even in the event of all that there will always be a lot of co-opeation between the two new countries on a closer scale than you would get with France or another country in Europe.

The only realistic option is to then join the Republic, because I have no interest in an independant Northern Ireland sucking up to England and America for investment because its too stuck up to join the Republic which has everything we'll need and that we can contribute fairly too.

Well if the union breaks up, then unification would be the way to go.
Opposition to unification would be based on anti-Irishness, rather than a desire to remain british, as is the case now.
Obviously, if there is no union, unionism could not fall back on the desire to remain part of the union.
After all, they are unionists. If they change to being ulster seperatists, it would be nothing more than anti-irishness IMO.

[lochy]

Having lived in the south for 9 months now, there does seem to be a lot of genuine interest in the North. In the recent elections, the local FF candidate said in the local paper that reunification is the goal. He said this for votes, because it is popular. SF are not big here so he wasn't doing it to nullify them.

With regard to that interest in the North meaning a wish for reunification. I would say Yes, but not on any terms.

My wife who is English thinks it is funny here because the border is just ignored. My wife recently had to sign forms at the bank stating that she had premanently moved to the state, and my wife asked would I have to sign. She was told "No, because he was born in Tyrone and so is Irish". The border is being ignored out of existence.

[Jim]

Yeah thats the opinion down south I've found with a lot of companies working on both parts of the border.

My new flatmates find it really weird that NI is part of Britain still, they see me as Irish and they know so little about this corner of Britain I was genuinely surprised. Clearly Britishness isnt their idea of the north, and thats from a UK perspective.

[Jim]

I wouldnt have, I'd have agreed. It was inevitable.

[Shades40]

Britons think Northern Ireland should be part of a united Ireland than believe it belongs in the United Kingdom.
In a finding that hits at the very heart of unionist ideology - which regards the province as an integral part of the UK - 41% of Britons believe Northern Ireland should be joined with the Irish republic while only 26% say it should continue as part of the UK.

For unionists, many of whom consider themselves British and refer to Britain as "the mainland", today's findings amount to a cold shoulder from their fellow citizens. Only one in four wants the province to stay part of the country.

www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,540092,00.html

That poll was back in 2001 and is now probably more favouring a UI over NI remaining in the UK.
Although it's something I've always found to be true that the English would gladly wash their hands of NI especially when Scotland leave the fold, so bring on the UI and sort this country out for once and for all. As for people in the ROI and the US here's what it says.

It also brings Britain closer into line with opinion within the Irish republic - where polls show an overwhelming majority continues to favour unification.

A 1999 survey found 86% of Irish voters still wanted to unite the island - despite a massive "Yes" vote in the May 1998 referendum approving the Good Friday agreement, which required the republic to renounce its constitutional claim on the north.

Surveys in the US have shown clear majorities of American opinion in favour of a united Ireland, too. With today's poll confirming that British views are shifting dramatically, Ulster's unionists look increasingly isolated in their opposition to Irish unity.

[Harry]

jim said:

Yeah thats the opinion down south I've found with a lot of companies working on both parts of the border.

My new flatmates find it really weird that NI is part of Britain still, they see me as Irish and they know so little about this corner of Britain I was genuinely surprised. Clearly Britishness isnt their idea of the north, and thats from a UK perspective.

It depends on who you meet and how much interest they have in Britains affairs. I've met many and many people who know loads about NI and who are very adamant that NI is British and should remain such.

[Harry]

So what have we established about the South and its peoples desire to unite Ireland. Perhaps a new thread in the Ask a Loyalist section would be a good idea to kick of the questions regarding the legitimacy of the Union You Republicans always twist things and have managed to turn this thread on its head ;D ;D ;D

[Harry]

setanta said:

I think we've established that the majority of people in the 26 counties want a United Ireland but not at ANY price.

Eh??? Christ i've established nothing???

[Jim]

harry said:

jim said:

Yeah thats the opinion down south I've found with a lot of companies working on both parts of the border.

My new flatmates find it really weird that NI is part of Britain still, they see me as Irish and they know so little about this corner of Britain I was genuinely surprised. Clearly Britishness isnt their idea of the north, and thats from a UK perspective.

It depends on who you meet and how much interest they have in Britains affairs. I've met many and many people who know loads about NI and who are very adamant that NI is British and should remain such.

Yeah, it depends on who you meet and where. I've noticed most people up north around Liverpool and Manchester are more in favour of a united Ireland than people down south around the London area. Probably because they've been bombed more, too, and dont want it out of spite.

I dont like talking about it or the troubles with English people anyway, it makes me feel like we're aliens on another planet.

[Wasp]

Jim I know plenty of people in Liverpool and most of them are in favour of N.Ireland remaining British. As Harry has said it depends on who you are talking to. A woman I am friendly with in Middlesborough once told me that the English police should get out of N.Ireland along with the army. When I asked what she meant she said that it is English policemen that patrol our streets cos we do not have a police force here. She hadn't a clue. But her husband was very up to date and while his wife wanted us to be left to ourselves he wanted N.I to remain British.

All depends on who you talk to.

[Jim]

I know plenty of people in Manchester and most of them are in favour of N.Ireland joining the south, whats your point there?

The English largely couldnt give a shite.

[Blue Angel]

i'd back that - generally the english know little about ireland generallly and n.ireland is not a major source of interest for many people here. Except for cliches about the IRA the general knowledge here regarding the north is poor - I've found myself explaining the differences between nationalist and loyalist to relatively well educated people here more than once. The old joke I've used here and elsewhere about the Orangeman who goes to Britain for a job and is pissed of when he gets to London when the cabbie in the taxi he hires says, 'Where to Paddy' would tell you a lot about how many people here view Ireland generally.