|
|
Post by An Fear Dubh on May 17, 2008 7:50:22 GMT
Jim is right there is a large support for Cliftonville in West Belfast. But that was because Cliftonville was the only 'Catholic/Nationalist' team in the top league. West Belfast is largely an untapped resource for soccer. Also considering the political nature of sport and that soccer in the north is associated with 'Protestantism', you would think when the opportunity to presented itself to widen the base support and to be more apppealing across the community the IFA would take a grip and refuse to let go!
Usually these revamps and new leagues are all about sponsorship and enticing tv deals. But from my perpective it makes no sense, other than a suicide attempt by the IFA.
I can not see Portadown attempting to go south, but I feel DC may feel they have been forced that way. But it is a big risk factor on behalf on the IFA if Portadown feel that with the in roads of the Setanta Cup they would be better off in the south.
|
|
|
|
Post by Harry on May 17, 2008 11:59:53 GMT
I understand DC will take legal action on the issue. Good luck to them.  |
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on May 17, 2008 17:52:22 GMT
I heard DC cheated with players in the youth league and when challenged they threatened other local clubs with not allowing them to practice at there grounds, instead they would have to use falls park. I don't know how true this is but it caME FROM A reliable source. I was also told that there is alot of resentment towards them in the area, but then again I am sure they have much support as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bilk on May 17, 2008 19:47:44 GMT
Jim is right there is a large support for Cliftonville in West Belfast. But that was because Cliftonville was the only 'Catholic/Nationalist' team in the top league. West Belfast is largely an untapped resource for soccer. Also considering the political nature of sport and that soccer in the north is associated with 'Protestantism', you would think when the opportunity to presented itself to widen the base support and to be more apppealing across the community the IFA would take a grip and refuse to let go! Usually these revamps and new leagues are all about sponsorship and enticing tv deals. But from my perpective it makes no sense, other than a suicide attempt by the IFA. I can not see Portadown attempting to go south, but I feel DC may feel they have been forced that way. But it is a big risk factor on behalf on the IFA if Portadown feel that with the in roads of the Setanta Cup they would be better off in the south. Your train of thought just leaves me stunned, I would love to know what planet you are from. Really honestly, I cannot believe where the thoughts in your warped mind come from. Your comunity cannot support a team (in your beliefe) unless it's a Catholic nationalist one. Jesus, and they call the Linfield supporters bigoted. There are many teams in the Irish league who are neither protestant or Catholic. Why do you have to have a team that is solely catholic nationalist, this is football for gods sake. And it is neither Catholic or protestant. It is a sport played in almost every country in the world including the RoI. When did football have a "political nature"? I am a prod through and through, and I will support DC all the way if they take legal action against the idiots in the IFA. I will do so based totally utterly on football, nothing whatever to do with religion and your wish to have a Catholic nationalist team. Is there no subject we discuss on here that you can look at from a position of moving forward and not back?  ? |
|
|
|
Post by Jim on May 17, 2008 23:06:13 GMT
Ehhhhh?
What he meant was DC compete with the GAA for support. I personally don't think people believe football is associated with protestantism at all because the vast majority are supporting English teams so I think AFD is wrong on that one, but I can see how he may come to that conclusion because of Glentoran and Linfield being dominant, and the hassle "catholic" teams have got over the years, from Belfast Celtic, to Derry City, and now Donegal Celtic. Maybe you took it a bit out of context Blik.
The area DC are based in is a GAA heartland and a lot of people dont have as much interest in football. Further down you go, the closer you get to the city center, more people support Cliftonville as their local team, they're the traditional team and DC are a lot newer, taking over from Belfast Celtic years ago.
Also I've noticed that the "protestant" teams have a lot more support, its your only sport so people come out in their thousands to see Linfield and Glentoran, whereas in nationalist areas people are chosing between watching GAA, and their local football team, and GAA wins a lot of the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bilk on May 18, 2008 20:04:13 GMT
Ehhhhh? What he meant was DC compete with the GAA for support. I personally don't think people believe football is associated with protestantism at all because the vast majority are supporting English teams so I think AFD is wrong on that one, but I can see how he may come to that conclusion because of Glentoran and Linfield being dominant, and the hassle "catholic" teams have got over the years, from Belfast Celtic, to Derry City, and now Donegal Celtic. Maybe you took it a bit out of context Blik. The area DC are based in is a GAA heartland and a lot of people dont have as much interest in football. Further down you go, the closer you get to the city center, more people support Cliftonville as their local team, they're the traditional team and DC are a lot newer, taking over from Belfast Celtic years ago. Also I've noticed that the "protestant" teams have a lot more support, its your only sport so people come out in their thousands to see Linfield and Glentoran, whereas in nationalist areas people are chosing between watching GAA, and their local football team, and GAA wins a lot of the time. Thank you Jim now that I can understand, but all right thinking people should be supporting DC in their efforts to stay in the Irish league. I have not spoken to a prod, and I have spoken to many since the new league was announced, who disagree with me. DC have more right to be in the new setup than Bangor. A team who have languished in the lower division for about 10 years. DC have not been around for that long. They finished a credable 11th in the league and got to the semi finals of the Irish Cup. To me that is the basis on which they fully deserve a place. |
|
|
|
Post by Jim on May 18, 2008 20:44:54 GMT
Yeh, ofcourse they should, they earned their place and to have it taken away is a joke, I'd be supporting Glentoran or Linfield if it was going to happen to them, its about football.
Ontop of that, as AFD said earlier, DC put a lot of effort into their youth system trying to win over young kids from GAA into Football and giving them something to do with their time, that'll be gone if DC are to be made irrelevant, they'll not be able to fund themselves any longer through being part of a league.
It will definitely be a matter that will have to be taken to UEFA as it also effects UEFA cup placements and one team is literally being forced out by the IFA, and they arent the first.
|
|
|
|
Post by An Fear Dubh on May 20, 2008 14:59:18 GMT
Thanks Jim for helping to explain, it was never my intention to infer that West Belfast or any 'nationalist/catholic' community can not support local teams regardless of sports etc.
I was trying to provide a historical background to the development of DC and how their support base grew. I also was referring to local football/soccer as being seen as 'protestant', rather than talking about football/soccer generally. And local soccer is in competition with the GAA, Rugby, and all other sports. I was also recognizing that we live in a divided community in the north and along with many things there are elements that want to feed into the sectarian division. And they support one team because they hope or want to use this to create divisions. But such elements have no real love for that sport. We also see a mirror reflection from others towards this display, and to pretend the sectarian element it does not exist is to deny reality. But all right thinking people want to remove sectarianism from sport and from our society completely.
In the past I exchanged views with Harry over sectarianism in soccer. And I admit that my views were altered by the points he made. I think it is naive in the extreme to think that soccer in the north is not effected by the political situation here. And while it might be the Utopian ideal to keep sport free from politics, the two are inter-linked. I do not want a team to be purely made up of one religion. Nor do I want supporters to come solely from one religion in support one one team to the exclusion of others who want to support that same team. But let us recognize the reality of where we live and identify correctly the various factors that are an influence on those making decisions in sport. If you can not see the politics in football or sport then you have not looked beyond your nose, or are turning a blind eye to reality. I always want to move forward but I want to deal with reality and that means facing the issues honestly. If you want to delude yourself that football is unaffected by politics then you will never be able to make a change that will have a positive effect.
Just for future reference, when I put - 'traditions', 'nationalist', 'unionist' into '......' (quotation??) marks like this it is because this is how others label such things and I do not agree that such labels are totally correct as I know from experience that issue are more grey than simply black and white. But for the purpose of simplistic debate as we have here this does make it easier to make a point less long winded and therefore easier to digest by the reader. I am a GAA person, but I also have a mild support for Liverpool FC, Juventus, Home Farm FC and DC.
|
|
|
|
Post by earl on May 20, 2008 15:20:55 GMT
No such thing mate! |
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on May 20, 2008 16:02:46 GMT
Do any of you think DC will play the sectarian card the way they did in the Irsh cup semi final??
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on May 20, 2008 22:45:28 GMT
Try asking the ref about the abuse he got from certain DC officials in the changing rooms. He was told by the same people that he and his linesmen got exactly what they wanted and that was an all blue final meaning 2 Protestant teams which BTW couldn't be more wrong.
Coleraine is supported by about 70% or maybe 75% Protestant, has a mixed team, a Catholic manager and is far from a Prod blue team as officials from DC said. There anger was there for all to hear.
|
|
|
|
Post by An Fear Dubh on May 21, 2008 0:04:26 GMT
I think such innuendo and stories that are difficult to confirm are unhelpful. People create stories and and mix for a variety of reasons, and we should not be passing on such stories unless we personally heard them. What did the Linfield manger say of Ballymena fans?? I think it is irrelevant to look at such things, especially to pass them on as fact.
Some people take sport very seriously and speak very passionately. And I have verbally abused a few refs in my time, in the heat of the moment. People make money by talking about referee decisions, refs are human and they make mistakes and some have been convicted of being corrupt. So of course you will be angry if your team loses, and you may even blame the ref. And you may say something that is wrong. But I am sure if this was pointed out to that official then when he reflects after the cools off, he might be adult enough to apologize.
But we should not assume this means that generally DC is sectarian in nature. They are a little team trying to establish themselves amoungst the big boys, and they feel they have a mountain to climb, and like little boys they feel everyone is against them for lots of different reasons. I know the Linfield manager was full of praise for how he was treated along with his team and staff after their first match at DC, they took over the local pub. The joke afterwards was why did the DC not entertain in their clubrooms? Because if fighting had broken out they could not afford the cost of repairs, so the pub 50yds down was a safer option as the pub staff would police the punters. The reality was the pub had a good kitchen the DC does not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on May 21, 2008 1:46:53 GMT
If its the pub I'm thinking of I'm surprised!
|
|
|
|
Post by An Fear Dubh on May 21, 2008 11:21:52 GMT
The Suffolk Inn.
I do not know if you are aware Jim, the old Inn is an abandonded shell and a big shiny new one was built close to the road. They do top quality grub at reasonable rates.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on May 21, 2008 17:18:49 GMT
Thats it. I knew it was rebuilt but was always under the impression it was a shit hole inside. Don't know why, I think it was because I was brought there when I was 6 and I was melted out of my head.
|
|
