Cooperation Ireland

[Wasp]

It seems interesting and should be effectful. My only problem is the actual name, it is for peoople from both sides of the border which is two different countries and only one of them is in the name.

I suppose if an organisation had what some would see as a pro-British name then it would be hard to see it as neutral. But saying that I will take a better look tomorrow when I get a chance.

[Republic]

Is that not bein a bit too picky wasp? Ireland does cover the whole island, even if there are two different states!

[Wasp]

republic said:

Is that not bein a bit too picky wasp? Ireland does cover the whole island, even if there are two different states!

No mate, I am being honest. Sadly this is how things are up here and unless you experience it then it maybe hard to understand.

Look at it this way, how would a body called co-operation Londonderry be perceived by republicans? Would they see it as being neutral or would they automatically assume that this was mainly a Unionist body trying to be neutral? Londonderry is the legal name but republicans do not recognioze that and still try to have it changed. It is Derry to them, but it is Londonderry to me if you can see what I am getting at.

Also many don't see Ireland as covering the whole island, only part of it be it the biggest part.

But I understand why you would think I am being picky about it.

[Jim]

Whats wrong with "Ireland"? Its a generic name for the island you hardly live in Iceland.

[An Fear Dubh]

I would agree with Republic, Wasp's issue with the name does seem to be nit-picking. As the term 'Ireland' is the accepted geographical term, as 'British Isles' is also the accepted geographical term to include 'Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, Isle of Man, Channel Isles, etc' I do not like the term 'British Isles' and where possible refuse to use it or accept it, but I accept that like Wasp I am being small minded and nit-picking.

I do think that such terminology is important, as this sets the starting point of the mindset. Do I accept British dominance? No. Does the geographical term really effect my purpose? No. But why should we use a term that sets out to dominate or to subordinate one over another, let us start out equal and ensure that dominance is not the objective even by language/terms.

Now I know nothing of this group or have no experience of their work. But I have personal experience with a number of the individuals listed as Patrons and Board members:
John Cushnahan ex Alliance Party and now Fine Gael MEP. I have not had direct one-to-one experience but have watched him in political action in small community group/campaigns. And he is a political right wing bully and not interested in listening to any opinion other than his own.
Breidge Gadd ex head of the probation board. I have had long and detailed confrontations with her. To her credit she has after years of confrontation taken onboard some of the points made. But her ability and the slow pace of her change very much made me question her objectives. Even when faced with her own facts she refused to accept the conclusion, but took many months to get there. My conclusion to her is she is one of those upper-middle class people who have very little understanding of reality, even when punched in the face. She wants to be a 'do gooder' and help those not as fortunate as herself, but her patronising position and stubbornness, means that she is an obstacle to those same people. And because she thinks she knows better she refuses to step aside and allow people to use the tools better than she can to help themselves. The best thing she could do is to permantantly retire and keep her mouth firmly closed.
Eamonn McCartan head of the Sports Council, I know I have had dealings with him, but I can not remember at the moment when or why. So I will come back to him later.
John Semple ex head of the NIO, no personal dealings but I know his hand/policy/advice has been behind many failed initiatives here.

But going through all the board members I see very few people from working class backgrounds, I see bankers and corporate bosses and managers, a retired international Judge - Senator George Mitchell. So I wonder what do they really do that develops inter-community relations be it in the north between Catholic/Protestant, or North/South. I do work with Twinbrook Youth, which is also closely associated with Poleglass (across the road) but both are vast sprawling housing estates with few amenities. I can remember one 'exchange' program organised by this group before they changed their name (Co-operation North changed to Co-operation Ireland), and I am nearly sure it was with youth from Ballybeen in East Belfast. I ended up going to Ballybeen as a 'youth worker', and while the day was enjoyable. The only lasting thing that stayed with me was something that I already knew - that Ballybeen was a vast sprawling estate with few amenities, and their problems were the same as ours. But while we blamed government (then British direct rule) they blamed republicans. And this was when the 'Normalisation Policy' (see NIO), 'Ulsterization Policy' and 'Criminalization Policy' were under effect. And groups like Co-operation North were the flavour of the time.

They run an annual Media Programme for 3rd level journalists, it is called the 'Anne Maguire Student Journalism Conference', now I have family and friends who are in the media. But who is this journalist who died in a car accident Anne Maguire?

This group [Co-operation Ireland] would not be one that I would be promoting as one that is effective or has potential. But rather as a failed initiative that will never achieve anything other than single experiences. I view it much like integrated schools here in the north, in theory a good idea, in practice it does not achieve the stated goals. So we can waste more resources time and money or we can work at those things that do improve peoples lives. People and communities are at different levels some are ready for 'inter-community' relations, some are not. And by pushing communities together by emotional/civil/moral/financial blackmail is counter productive. These relationships will develop between communities that share common objectives/borders naturally and these naturally developed links with have a far more lasting impact.

While I accept Setanta's point that those of us involved in these internet groups need to do more to bridge build. I also question the assertion that we have found common ground on plenty of issues. I think we have more commonly found the same old divisions. And people are still willing to be led by the same fears/misunderstandings/prejudices. And we need to break that down. Some people are not interested in moving forward but want to revert to the past. History is important in that there are lessons to be learnt and mistakes to be avoided again. But sometimes people only learn from their own mistakes they do not learn from other peoples mistakes.

[Wasp]

'While I accept Setanta's point that those of us involved in these internet groups need to do more to bridge build. I also question the assertion that we have found common ground on plenty of issues. I think we have more commonly found the same old divisions. And people are still willing to be led by the same fears/misunderstandings/prejudices. And we need to break that down. Some people are not interested in moving forward but want to revert to the past. History is important in that there are lessons to be learnt and mistakes to be avoided again. But sometimes people only learn from their own mistakes they do not learn from other peoples mistakes.'

Agreed.

[Jim]

After reading what AFD wrote I've honestly no interest in it.

Middle class communities arent segregated in the least.

[earl]

Can't argue with AFD. He has made a very strong point.