Kilkeel, why the difference??

[An Fear Dubh]

Yes, I do, but then I think of Rio and the Mardi Gras (the festival for Shrove Tuesday). And maybe it is the way we do them and the reasons why we do them.

In the end the impact on the local community should be the first consideration. Do the local community want it? Is is good for the local community?

How much of a difference would it be if half naked dancers wanted to march down Garvaghy Road in carnival style atmophere. Instead of sour faced men dressed in black carrying banners and regalia that supports war and killers that have harmed the local community?

[Wasp]

anfeardubh said:

Yes, I do, but then I think of Rio and the Mardi Gras (the festival for Shrove Tuesday). And maybe it is the way we do them and the reasons why we do them.

In the end the impact on the local community should be the first consideration. Do the local community want it? Is is good for the local community?

How much of a difference would it be if half naked dancers wanted to march down Garvaghy Road in carnival style atmophere. Instead of sour faced men dressed in black carrying banners and regalia that supports war and killers that have harmed the local community?

I think you should take a real good look at yourself, afterall you said you are a former terrorist, one who was part of a group that butchered and maimed thousands, including fellow countrymen.

[An Fear Dubh]

That is your view Wasp, my view point has been endorsed by an electoral mandate from the majority of nationalists, and Sinn Féin and my comrades are elected to govern you.

You say you do not support the DUP or Loyalist paramilitaries so who endorses your view point, you?!

[Wasp]

My viewpoint is one that is shared by many people. Are you saying you and your comrades were not involved in an organisation that butchered and maimed thousands???

Because your viewpoint has been endorsed by anyone or any group, it doesn't mean your viewpoint is correct. Or are you trying to say it does, because then the viewpoint of the DUP for example is correct.

One thing that I know for sure and there is decades of evidence is that some of those with your viewpoint including yourself were involved in butchering and maiming thousands. Not forgetting the punishment beatings and shootings handed out to children or the kidnap and torture of people who faced your kangaroo courts, or your desire to keep a statue of a nazi collaborator etc etc. All these facts have video evidence and the witness statements of thousands.

[An Fear Dubh]

So who are these many people who share your view, where is the electorial mandate for your opinion?

The DUP mandate is every bit as valid as the Sinn Féin mandate. And we will work with them to govern you, and they will work with us. You are on the outside of the majority of opinion.

You offer nothing new but a return to the past, and it is about time you looked at yourself first before you throw stones, and accept the new reality.

[Wasp]

Well I think you need to try and get rid of that big bag of chips on your shoulder. I am not so concerned now with who governs me especially when at least British prescence in N.Ireland is now being supported by republicans as are the crown forces of law and order. Who would have thought this would have happened.

Why do I need an electoral mandate for my opinion, is this something you have made up that anyone with an opinion have to have an electoral mandate for their opinion. Anyway to do with your opinion do you agree with everything sinn fein says and does, is your opinion the same as theres?

Does everyones opinion have to be the exact same as the political party they support, the exact same as friends and neighbours?? You do have a very good imagination or would you rather try and enforce your opinions on people like you and your comrades used to and perhaps still do (although I am not sure if there is any proof of republicans doing that now when they support British law and order)??

You just try and brush over the past and all of a sudden you and your comrades are superior in opinion, a bit like the the last few decades where death and torture was your big thing to enforce opinions.

Anyway at least now the Union seems to be safer, thanks to support from you and your comrades. Without feeling the need to thank people who terrorized for removing that threat, you do however deserve a pat on the back for realizing that you and your comrades were defeated in your attempts to bomb the people of N.Ireland into a U.Ireland. Now you have chose to support the crown and democracy. As much as I don't like the idea of terrorists in governemnt I have to respect the majority of nationalist who voted them into governemnt and just get on with it. But at the sametime I will never let you forget what republicans done. Funny how the victims of bombs are forgotten but those who done it are remembered.

Take the Birmingham 6 your comrades let them rot in jail, that is if they truly were innocent, and I am sure they are because any court can make a mistake. At least in a British court they got jailed and not tortured to death and dumped on some back road with their bodies boobytrapped. Or perhaps worse they could be forced to become suicide bombers.

The many people who share my view are the thousands who sufferered and saw daily on the news etc what terrorism was doing. Do you honestly not think there are many people who share my view that the ira butchered and maimed thousands, including fellow countrymen? Confusing to say the least.

[An Fear Dubh]

And if you believe all that then I am glad you are not an Irish nationalist but someone opposed to our ideology as that poses no credible opposition to our objectives, and we will continue to lead you down the path we are going.

[earl]

wasp said:

Angry loyalists tried to block the parade and heckled members of an Ancient Order of Hibernians band as they walked through Kilkeel on Friday morning.

I thought your reason for this thread was that the parade in Kilkeel passess off peacefully, and that the locals don't mind it. Yet here you are saying otherwise. So what is the original point of this thread?

wasp said:

The decision by the Parades Commission to allow the parade to go ahead had caused outrage in the loyalist community in Kilkeel. Relatives of victims of republican violence in the area had decided to challenge the commission's decision at the High Court in Belfast.

I didn't know that the AOH had murdered anyone. Someone better inform the police!

[Wasp]

I do think things are different now Setanta but alot of the hatred still runs deep, very deep. The hatred between alot of people on both sides is the same now as it was in 1986, although alot of things ahve changed for the better.

Earl the point of the thread is that the residents have been tolerant of the nationalist parades even though republicans have been involved in violence. Residents have started to voice their concerns over republicans going past a monument dedicated to those killed by republican terrorists.

Some of the protestors which numbered about 50 were involved in exchanges of verbal abuse with republicans. Members of that community have been attacked as have the police by some of these republicans attending the parade. Has Kilkeel turned into a Garvaghy road? or has the majority of unionists in the town acknowledge their right to march even through Protestant areas.

[earl]

WASP,

You mentioned something about 200 protesters earlier. The article you have used doesn't highlight who started the trouble.
You are sending out mixed signals. One minute you say that the locals are tolerent, and the next minute you are posting up an article which states that 200 protestors were involved as well as 50 Loyalist youths causing trouble. This article also never states that the trouble started with Republicans participating in the parade.

This whole thread is a sham.

Here's the bottom line:
If the residents are tolerent of the parades, then fair play to them. If the residents are tolerent to the parades and show their tolerence by protesting in their 100's then, Killkeel's a fcuked up place, because that wouldn't exactly be tolerence. If the residents are not tolerent of the parade, and the parade goes through any residential areas, then they have every right to go infront of the parades commission and try and have it banned. If the parade is contentious, then it should be banned outright or re-routed. See. The answer is so, so simple.

[Wasp]

Am I the kind of person to drop something because some disagree with me?

I thought I made it clear that protestants in the area were tolerant of nationalist parades, but in recent years due to provocation some have protested. The disputes concerned a short extension of the main route, which took the march past the Presbyterian church and the War Memorial. The AOH had marched this section of the route until about 20 years ago, when the police had closed it off. In 2000 permission had been given to march this section once more. So this parade doesn't seem to have been a traditional one up to this very day.

In 1999 a new memorial, to some of the victims of the Troubles, was erected in an avenue running off the main route, about 50 metres away from the march. This was the focus of the loyalist protests for the parade to start walking this route after not doing so for about 20 years. Some claim about 20 years and some claim about 25 years so please allow for a few years here and there.

On 17 March 2000 a Nationalist parade in Kilkeel was allowed to parade its full route along the mainly Unionist Greencastle Street—something that had not happened for over 25 years.

www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=172

However not all in the AOH were supportive of the actions of some of their new members. A week later Tony Carroll, the AOH public relations officer, said: “We saw the pictures on TV and everybody was amazed at what went on”. He pledged further to investigate the disruption and take “appropriate action”.

If he wasn't a member why say this.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1867289.stm

Sinn Fein said restrictions placed on the parade were a "calculated insult to nationalists".

www.rte.ie/news/2000/0317/kilkeel.html

Earlier today, scuffles broke out in Kilkeel in County Down after a group of about 200 Loyalists confronted an Ancient Order of Hibernians' St Patrick's Day parade in the village.

Police in riot gear moved in to keep the vocal crowd of around 50 loyalist youths back from the parade and a nationalist crowd of some 1,000 gathered on the other side of the street.

[earl]

WASP,

The title and original main thrust of this thread is 'Kilkeel, why the difference??'. Now we see that Kilkeel has no difference, except that now it's a Catholic parade that's causing offence to Protestants. Is that the answer you are looking for? Because other than that, it looks like the exact same cr@p that I hear about concerning contentious OO parades! Your last post even further proves that there is no difference! And you can't even see this.

[Wasp]

Has Kilkeel faced the same level of protests as say Garvaghy road? Has it made the same headlines etc etc? When did the AOH begin to march there again after 20 odd years? So there is a big difference between the two.

[earl]

wasp said:

Has Kilkeel faced the same level of protests as say Garvaghy road? Has it made the same headlines etc etc? When did the AOH begin to march there again after 20 odd years? So there is a big difference between the two.

Oh I get it. Kilkeel proves that Protestants are more tolerant of Catholic parades than Catholics are of Protestant parades because they protest at a smaller level than the Garvaghy road residents! So I'd be tolerant of Africans then in your book by your own logic if I used mild racial slurs, right?

If people were tolerant, there'd be no protests. That's how it works in the real world. I state again, this thread is a sham. WASP has done himself in with his own examples, and his own mixup in where he was going with this thread. His original point was to show that Protestants are more tolerant than Catholics, and then he decided to go down the Protestants persecuted by Catholics route which totally blew his original points out of the water!