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Post by Jim on Sept 17, 2007 13:34:03 GMT
I didnt real the whole thing it was making my laptop go like a snail.
Looks like what they've been saying for the past year or two, since the decommissioning really, only all on the one file.
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Post by Harry on Sept 20, 2007 15:55:58 GMT
It all reads very well but many Unionists would feel that SF don't practice what they preach. Its a start
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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2007 19:24:20 GMT
IM0 and that of many others sinn fein are only interested in Unionists to try and secure a UI, then after that there interest in Unionists etc will very soon drop. You only have to look at some of those who live in the republic who are in the OO or support the Unionist traditions to see that republicans want them around like anyone wants a dose.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2007 20:07:43 GMT
Unfortunately you are wrong here, I am involved alot more than you think, thanks in part to forums like this.
I believe I speak of republicans and not nationalists in general. If you can't stand me pointing things out and class it as whining then stop your own double standards as you do a fair amount of whining yourself or trying to paint a rosy picture of sinn fein. What replies do you want me to make to this thread? Do you want me to say what I think and how I feel about it or not? Maybe I am just not buying into sinn fein propaganda the way you would like Unionists to do.
See answer above. BTW do we all now have to be members of political parties to voice our opinions and concerns???
Again see answer above. Now if I have annoyed you then fair enough, I seem to have hit a raw nerve with you. I speak my mind and I FOR ONE am not going along with your spin or that of sinn feins, not now not ever.
Things are changing and for the better of Unionism. Is Harry or Carol going to stand for the elections? Why single me out to lobby them? Or is this a case of putting them in a position where they may feel uncomfortable in agreeing with me on anything incase they offend or upset you. Perhaps it is just a case of Unionists are only allowed to speak so much out against sinn fein and there policies, anymore than that it's the dummies out of the pram routine.
Yeh so you say, but with attitudes like that I wouldn't have thought so, not for a long time at least.
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Post by Jim on Sept 20, 2007 21:01:25 GMT
Its not about standing in elections, elections dont really prove much almost all the MLAs are under a whip. What Setanta means is that your whinging and complaining and condemning SF at every turn but you dont really seem to put up alternatives of your own, ideas of your own, or seem to be involved in anything. But you say you are involved so I'll take your word for it. Just please dont be that flat earth unionist party  |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2007 21:19:15 GMT
Jim I do condemn sinn fein because IMO that is what they deserve as well as there sheer hypocrisy being pointed out. No matter what is said about the British/Unionists etc as soon as sinn feins double standards or opinions of the are pointed out etc some don't like it. Now I also have welcomed various moves from sinn fein, be it somewhat guarded I still welcomed them and said so.
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Post by Jim on Sept 20, 2007 21:22:54 GMT
Thats fair enough Wasp, but in the end, what are you going to do about it?
You have big Ian running the show, hes in government with your sworn enemy in a system that was thought up by loyalist prisoners years ago, whos going to challenge him in a modern way that actually represents people who arent just out for blood? will it be you and people like you? or will it be more old men with money?
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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2007 21:48:26 GMT
I hope it will be people like me and I hope those who use violence will tow the line. I am not interested in any of the bullshit which I have been accused of when it comes to powersharing etc. I will speak my mind, put forward my case which is shared with many and keep presenting all my concerns over and over again.
The bullshit that comes from sinn fein in Ballymena and Coleraine etc is unbelievable. Blatant lies which are creating and maintaining tensions and the divide. Sinn fein are not all to blame but they play a big part then try and act like peace makers when they created the same shite they are trying to end. It is ridiculous.
Republic said about thugs in the south alligning themselves with sinn fein or words to that effect. Take certain people in Ballymena, these are well known as trouble making drunken hoods who fight with themselves if they have no-one else to fight with. Some have come out of the park to shout at passing bands who ignore them and march on with dignity. These same thugs use the bands as an excuse to start trouble then they play the sectarian victims card.
Who steps in to say they are representing nationalists in Ballymena who were protesting at loyalist marchers and recieved sectarian abuse etc? None other than sinn fein. I know people in Dunclug, Millfield, Dunvale, Fisherwick etc and they all are fed up with the yobs. Some of th3ese same people vote sinn fein on things like housing etc and probably in part because they hate the dup. But they also hate when sinn fein put them in with the mix of 'poor nationalists' facing sectarian abuse from the big bad loyalists.
I watched one such protest which involved about 5 or 6 drunken yobs who shouted at the bands, then when they were not getting a reaction they came over and started abusing a middle aged policeman. They even knocked his hat off and still weren't arrested. They were told to move on and to be fair to the 2 policeman there they didn't want any hassle, they just asked them to move on. There were about 20 or so people standing watching the parade and they were made up of elderly and families and perhaps this is why these yobs decided to act the big men.
One lady standing gave the police dogsabuse for not arresting them as they were scaring her kids. The yobs on there way home or wherever they were going only hot lifted after they damaged cars in an estate which was nowhere near any of the parade route. BTW the area that they were standing has very few houses and is a mixed area. The thugs live nowhere near it either.
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Post by Jim on Sept 21, 2007 9:03:27 GMT
I hope it will be people like me and I hope those who use violence will tow the line. I am not interested in any of the bullshit which I have been accused of when it comes to powersharing etc. I will speak my mind, put forward my case which is shared with many and keep presenting all my concerns over and over again. The bullshit that comes from sinn fein in Ballymena and Coleraine etc is unbelievable. Blatant lies which are creating and maintaining tensions and the divide. Sinn fein are not all to blame but they play a big part then try and act like peace makers when they created the same shite they are trying to end. It is ridiculous. Republic said about thugs in the south alligning themselves with sinn fein or words to that effect. Take certain people in Ballymena, these are well known as trouble making drunken hoods who fight with themselves if they have no-one else to fight with. Some have come out of the park to shout at passing bands who ignore them and march on with dignity. These same thugs use the bands as an excuse to start trouble then they play the sectarian victims card. Who steps in to say they are representing nationalists in Ballymena who were protesting at loyalist marchers and recieved sectarian abuse etc? None other than sinn fein. I know people in Dunclug, Millfield, Dunvale, Fisherwick etc and they all are fed up with the yobs. Some of th3ese same people vote sinn fein on things like housing etc and probably in part because they hate the dup. But they also hate when sinn fein put them in with the mix of 'poor nationalists' facing sectarian abuse from the big bad loyalists. I watched one such protest which involved about 5 or 6 drunken yobs who shouted at the bands, then when they were not getting a reaction they came over and started abusing a middle aged policeman. They even knocked his hat off and still weren't arrested. They were told to move on and to be fair to the 2 policeman there they didn't want any hassle, they just asked them to move on. There were about 20 or so people standing watching the parade and they were made up of elderly and families and perhaps this is why these yobs decided to act the big men. One lady standing gave the police dogsabuse for not arresting them as they were scaring her kids. The yobs on there way home or wherever they were going only hot lifted after they damaged cars in an estate which was nowhere near any of the parade route. BTW the area that they were standing has very few houses and is a mixed area. The thugs live nowhere near it either. Yeah, and the bullshit that comes from the DUP time after time, on many issues, it never ceases to amaze me, but I get on with it and accept things because there is no alternative. I know people in Ardoyne and other areas considered hostile around that time of year who voted Sinn Fein and will keep doing so because they're getting the job done. To be fair that police man should have thrown them into the back of a landrover and got them out of the area, throw them in a cell for a bit, thats what they do in Derry and in Belfast, and in England, and in the south. I mean I find it hard to believe Sinn Fein is taking in drunken wasters in one part of the north when in the other part (belfast), men are chasing them around with baseball bats and Sinn Fein are at the front of it, I've phoned them myself to call them out to get rid of a pack of scumbags joyriding and then setting the car on fire, and thats all with police co-operation too who are now in on the act. |
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Post by Harry on Sept 21, 2007 9:25:11 GMT
Apart from Setanta is anyone else involved with any political party?? I don't think its fair that WASP should be belittled simply because he isn't involved in any party. Coming on here and trying to debate with Republicans is a big step and a step that many fellow Unionists wouldn't follow so WASP is better and more forward thinking than quite a few I was at home for the weekend and got chatting and i know its only locals in my pub but it scares me how far behind we are. They are all against Paisley for working with SF but its simply because he's working with SF, its not because of the lies and manipulation and complete U turns. There is no realisation that we have to work with SF, there is no realisation of the mandate that they have, there is no realistaion of how others now view SF and no matter what has happened in the past, outsiders now view SF as trying to promote peace and if we go against we face complete isolation from everywhere. Its ok these Unionists talking about forming another party but what will it achieve?? What is their alternative, what will they offer accept trying to wreck everything we have worked for??? Too many Unionists only know how to swim against the tide and in days gone by we maybe had the force to turn the tide because with the IRA killing and murdering we always had morality on our side or so we thought and others where sympathetic to our struggle as the IRA damged any legitimacy SF ever had. Now its different, i know it must feel like others have a short memory and have forgotten what SF have stood for in the past but peace has to take priority and for peace to prosper everyone must try and move forward. How must it feel for nationalists to have have Paisley as first minister after the hatred he has preached against them for years?? We all have bitter pills to swallow and working with Marty and Gerry certainly is a bitter pill to swallow for the famalies of those who died at the hands of the IRA but it has to be done. Its about time we learned to work within and manipulate it for our own ends just like SF will be doing for themselves, they will be making the most of whats on offer and plotting the next step towards a UI. We have to be coy to this and working against those steps but all with the juristiction of the bodies that have been formed. If we aren't part of it we have no ability to influence it, surely these breakaway Unionists must see the sense of it. |
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Post by Harry on Sept 21, 2007 9:53:15 GMT
Mainstream Unionist parties always claimed to be democratic. Whether you agree with how they behaved in them days is your choice but morally they weren't killing or maiming anyone unlike the IRA. SF represent the IRA and as such had no legitimacy in the democratic world. I know fine well the dirty dealings that went on and i'm simply trying to present a case to Unionists that we have no reasons or justification now for trying to destroy any power sharing. SF have moved on and the IRA have destroyed weapons and declared peace so we must accept the new circumstances we find ourselves in.
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Post by Jim on Sept 21, 2007 11:16:06 GMT
Apart from Setanta is anyone else involved with any political party?? I don't think its fair that WASP should be belittled simply because he isn't involved in any party. Coming on here and trying to debate with Republicans is a big step and a step that many fellow Unionists wouldn't follow so WASP is better and more forward thinking than quite a few I was at home for the weekend and got chatting and i know its only locals in my pub but it scares me how far behind we are. They are all against Paisley for working with SF but its simply because he's working with SF, its not because of the lies and manipulation and complete U turns. There is no realisation that we have to work with SF, there is no realisation of the mandate that they have, there is no realistaion of how others now view SF and no matter what has happened in the past, outsiders now view SF as trying to promote peace and if we go against we face complete isolation from everywhere. Its ok these Unionists talking about forming another party but what will it achieve?? What is their alternative, what will they offer accept trying to wreck everything we have worked for??? Too many Unionists only know how to swim against the tide and in days gone by we maybe had the force to turn the tide because with the IRA killing and murdering we always had morality on our side or so we thought and others where sympathetic to our struggle as the IRA damged any legitimacy SF ever had. Now its different, i know it must feel like others have a short memory and have forgotten what SF have stood for in the past but peace has to take priority and for peace to prosper everyone must try and move forward. How must it feel for nationalists to have have Paisley as first minister after the hatred he has preached against them for years?? We all have bitter pills to swallow and working with Marty and Gerry certainly is a bitter pill to swallow for the famalies of those who died at the hands of the IRA but it has to be done. Its about time we learned to work within and manipulate it for our own ends just like SF will be doing for themselves, they will be making the most of whats on offer and plotting the next step towards a UI. We have to be coy to this and working against those steps but all with the juristiction of the bodies that have been formed. If we aren't part of it we have no ability to influence it, surely these breakaway Unionists must see the sense of it. I'm not belitering Wasp either I'm just questioning why he is so against the current unionist leadership but seems to do nowt about it. I'm not in an Irish party because I'm in England 9 months of the year, the only party in England I'd think about joining would be Respect but its barely a party. But I'm generally happy with the republican leadership and I'm very supportive of the government. The nationalist in me has got what we wanted as part of a compromise, the republican in me will always be looking for a united Ireland but its a long time off and plenty of time for unionists to get toghether properly. Otherwise I thought that was a good post Harry I completely agree with it. |
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