the Love Ulster march part II

[sideshow]

Is anyone going to the second LU march in Dublin-Are there any plans for a bit of a meet up in Dublin or are we all still too proud to enjoy each other's company?
I myself dont agree with the march .Why ?Because i feel it is provocative and confrontational and also there are too many sectarian resonances surrounding northern marches to expect it to happen without hassle in Dublin.
I dont like marches full stop be they republican loyalist or otherwise-they have a military vibe.I think the OO should go bowling instead.
Before I get attacked for being a typical nationalist bigot and as far as expressing ones culture is concerned-I think people have to sometimes change their culture where they find it may be offensive to others-like in the US where they had a culture of not allowing "coloured folks" on busses with whites which WAS an expression of WASP culture at the time and probably didnt bother a lot of godfearing white people but seems unthinkable now.Anybody with me on this?

[Republic]

I am not as supportive of this march as I was of the first one.
And I do agree that marches are stupid.
Why anyone feels the need to walk down a road in a huge group is beyond me.
They are provocative, militaristic and triumphant.
There are exceptions, I know, but on the whole I feel they are divisive and I would not be one bit unhappy if loyalists and republicans were banned from marching in the ROI.

[An Fear Dubh]

On the point of marches being stupid - I would like to know if Republic and Sideshow view all marches as stupid? Or does there come a point when they are not stupid?

In a 'pluralist democratic society' that we in the 'West' are supposed to live. How can people bring about change or bring pressure on politicians where they might see large support and a gathering momentum that might reflect on their next election count? Governments say that peaceful protest is legitimate. Because if peaceful protest is denied or stifled it can lead to violent protest. And in the north we have experience of this.

Is an Anti-War march stupid? Are the people who are opposed to Shell in Mayo and who have been denied legal process stupid because of protest marches? You can not say there are exceptions without naming them.

Maybe you live in a utopia where everything is perfect. But most of us live in a society that is corrupt. But every now and again something is done for the right reasons. And sometimes people and politicians need prodded to encourage them to do the right thing. I think a march is a legitimate way to express your concerns, we should not be afraid of them. Yes the organisers should be held accountable if things are not properly marshaled. Yes, routes should be disscussed prior to the event, and local feelings and considerations should be taken on board by the march organisers.

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

republic said:

I am not as supportive of this march as I was of the first one.
And I do agree that marches are stupid.
Why anyone feels the need to walk down a road in a huge group is beyond me.
They are provocative, militaristic and triumphant.
There are exceptions, I know, but on the whole I feel they are divisive and I would not be one bit unhappy if loyalists and republicans were banned from marching in the ROI.

So are you saying that the OO lodges based in the RoI should be banned from parading in thier own country?

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

Oh thats ok then is it, ban all parades but if parades are banned i guess ralleys should be banned, and protest marchs, who needs the right to protest anyway, might as well do away with all forms of desent while your at, who needs a democracy, or a free society, all those bothersome minorty groups thinking they should have say or be able to protest.
You either live in a free society or you don't

[Blue Angel]

indeed (in fairness i don't think republic would ban the right to dissent for everyone i should say). Even though you are unionist and i republican and i might disagree with all your points or opinions i think you have a perfect right to express them just as i have to express mine. It is why I feel that banning any political group is a very last-term option and that even fools like the National Front should be allowed to express their point of view (although of course the corrolary to that is we are allowed to say, 'you are talking bollox mate'.)

[Republic]

;D ;D
Can someone tell me where I said I wanted them banned?
I didnt say that.

I said they were stupid and I couldnt understand them.
I said i wouldnt be unhappy if loyalists and republicans were banned from marching. I think they achieve nothing and only cause trouble.

maybe its just a northern thing and im not used to that culture.
no one down here, prod or cath., seems too bothered about marching anywhere.


LOL @ setanta.
Thanks for the support, your right i dont discriminate, i hate them all equally ;DLOL


AFD just about that point about Shell in Mayo, there does not seem to be much public support for the protestors anymore.
Initially there was but that support has dwindled as people see political organisations (SF is one, there others though) jumping on the bandwagon in order to win support for themselves.
Thats IMO, maybe other people have reasons for not supporting the protestors

[Blue Angel]

i'd say given shell's atrocious worldwide reputation that the siituation in mayo is one everyone should be shouting about very, very loudy but yes unfortunately since some people used it to big up their green credentials it did affect the support level for this.

[An Fear Dubh]

I do not want to get side tracked by the why and wherefores of the Anti-Shell campaign in Mayo, that is another debate.

But I want to find out which marches and campaigns are stupid according to Republic (and not what Setanta thinks Republic means)? And what is the defining point between stupid and not stupid? Are St.Patrick Day parades/marches in Dublin stupid? For not many people being bothered about marching the march in Dublin sure seem to me to have a lot of people at them on the RTE news. May Day march is this a stupid one or a non-stupid one?

[Republic]

anfeardubh said:

I do not want to get side tracked by the why and wherefores of the Anti-Shell campaign in Mayo, that is another debate.

But I want to find out which marches and campaigns are stupid according to Republic (and not what Setanta thinks Republic means)? And what is the defining point between stupid and not stupid? Are St.Patrick Day parades/marches in Dublin stupid? For not many people being bothered about marching the march in Dublin sure seem to me to have a lot of people at them on the RTE news. May Day march is this a stupid one or a non-stupid one?

As far as the defining point goes, I do not know.

Yes St Pats day parades and marches are stupid IMO, they are boring and I dont see the point of them.
If other people enjoy them, fine. Its no skin off my nose

I meant that not many people are bothered about marching themselves!!!!
The LU march is a novelty here, i am very interested in it myself.

What is May Day march?
I have heard of it but I dont really know what it is tbh.

I didnt say campaigns were stupid, just marches.

[Blue Angel]

i have to say republic i am suprised that you of all people would say marches in general are stupid. I have more respect for you than to believe you would generalise so broadly. Let's have a look at some marches in history, the marches for civil rights in the 1960's, marches for women's voting rights in early 20th century britain. I would say these involved conflict or awkwardness but to describe them as stupid would be foolish i think!

[Republic]

blueangel said:

i have to say republic i am suprised that you of all people would say marches in general are stupid. I have more respect for you than to believe you would generalise so broadly. Let's have a look at some marches in history, the marches for civil rights in the 1960's, marches for women's voting rights in early 20th century britain. I would say these involved conflict or awkwardness but to describe them as stupid would be foolish i think!

i agree with that BA.
my comment was mainly in the context of all the marches that go on in NI. I am sick of hearing about them and I would say many people feel the same.
The marches and commemorations in NI are not at all on the same scale as the ones you have mentioned.

I am not knocking the campaigns or the reasons.
Either way my remark was casual and AFD took exception to it which is fair enough.
I am not that bothered about the issue of marches, but lets just say they are not my cup of tea!

[sideshow]

I just think its lets say unhelpful inthe current climate.I think Willie is trying to make a point here by holding a deliberately antagonistic march in Dublin to test the so-called tolerance of the southern state.If theres a repeat of last years scenario-willie is happy ,he's shown up the double standards of the people of the south and proved his point that the Irish republic has no respect for Unionist culture/voices.If the march passes off peacefully,willie is also happy cos he gets to March down o'connell st and give republicans what he ses as a dose of their own mecicine-he will rub their noses in it as they have done to his people for years in NI.I cant see how this kind of stuff s going to help relations between the RoI and NI improve and I think its deliberately being suggested t provoke and hence inhibit relations-cos Willie doesnt want anything to do with the Republic in the first place he's organising this march in a desperate attempt to demonstrate to his band of supporters what an untrustworthy bunch of snakes are in Dublin.Pathetic and childish really

[An Fear Dubh]

Now that Republic has withdrawn his generalisation on all marches being stupid, as it is obvious that such a wide sweeping statement is undefendable, and is stupid.

Republic previously told us that he understood the Unionist position. But it seems that suddenly when faced with a 'Love Ulster' march near where he lives (I assume he lives near Dublin, all I know is ROI), he now is of the opinion that unionist desires and aspirations and culture are now stupid.

I always find it strange that people can lecture northern nationalists but when the situation visits their door step those opinions get tossed out the window.

[Republic]

anfeardubh said:

Republic previously told us that he understood the Unionist position. But it seems that suddenly when faced with a 'Love Ulster' march near where he lives (I assume he lives near Dublin, all I know is ROI), he now is of the opinion that unionist desires and aspirations and culture are now stupid.

I always find it strange that people can lecture northern nationalists but when the situation visits their door step those opinions get tossed out the window.

that is not what i said at all.
nowhere did i say that that unionist desires, aspiration and culture are stupid.
that is not what i said at all and you know it.

northern nationalists have to put up with lectures from southerners because they supported terrorism and claimed they were doing it in our name.
perhaps the lectures indicate a certain resentment from the south at such an abuse.

but that is for another thread.

i want to make it clear that i did not say that unionist desire and/or culture was stupid.
only a few weeks ago you said i was a unionist!! make up your mind!!