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Post by Jim on Mar 19, 2008 14:21:08 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7300000/newsid_7305100/7305103.stm?bw=nb&mp=rm&news=1&bbcws=1Video of the news report on BBC NI. Absolutely wild. I saw him outside now and again because my mam lives on the very same street and I walk past that block of flats shown whenever I need to get onto the main road. Beaten so brutally for standing up to hoods and drug dealers. Hero imo. Everyone that lives on that estate knows too well how far the anti social behaviour is going. Fucking animals in this place.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 10:27:26 GMT
This man suffered a nasty death and I feel deeply sorry for his family but that is as far as it goes for me. He was a convicted bomber and belonged to an organisation that dished out many vicious beatings, bombings and shootings.
But Maybe it is only poetic justice considering his convictions and that after McCartney, Quinn etc it has now happened to one of their own who has received a taste of their own medicene.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 20, 2008 12:06:22 GMT
I don't know the full story to do with him, did he turn his back on violence, regret what he done etc. He may have saved his neighbours life and those who carry out these vile actions should be locked up for good. But the people who carry out these attacks are no different from those who killed McCartney, Quinn and carried out countless punishment beatings on children. I already provided a link from cain showing that the ira abused more children than anyone else etc.
This man was part of that organisation, he was a convicted bomber so perhaps what goes round comes round sad as the whole thing is.
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2008 12:19:57 GMT
Well he didn't kill Quinn or McCartney, he was very much liked in the area, he saved his neighbours from getting a big kicking and ends up getting killed himself, he stood up to the hoods and scum in the area that I've had to deal with before too, it could have been anyone who got that beating, could have been me since I'm here at the minute and only live down the street.
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Post by Jim on Mar 22, 2008 16:10:42 GMT
I was talking to my mam earlier about this since she lives on this street. Today I walked past the block of flats where he lived and saw the flowers and whatever else that was there too.
The police believe that they dropped a TV on his head, and also beat it with the handle of a pickaxe.
What worries me about this, the man was a bodybuilder. He went out to stop some old people from confronting these scumbags, and confronted them himself. I don't care if he was an ex-prisoner and neither should anyone on this forum (or anywhere, for that matter), this is a killing more brutal than many during the troubles, its closer to the shankill butchers actually. Absolutely viscious.
In this estate, its getting to the point that people are afraid to go out their doors moreso now then they did during the troubles with the brits the ra and the loyalists running around.
Bring back the Ra, the brits, and let them deal with the fuckers. Its getting unreal. I read that article by squinter in the andytown news (theres a topic on it here and the belfast telegraph wrote an article on it) and hes completely right. I'd not have read the article only my mam buys the newspaper. I usually buy the Irish news when home and they're basically saying the same thing. All the institutions, the MPs, the courts, the PSNI, the social services, the prisons, they're failing this country, and they're failing everyone that has to live through this shite day in day out. Its worse than the troubles.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 22, 2008 17:13:09 GMT
Thats shocking about the tv. IMO the country has become to politically correct, too any people greeting and gurning about everything the gov. done, many groups were too interested in the guilty rather than the victims and sadly this is now a big reflection on our society.
Ok have a fight with this man and warn him if he gets up he will get worse but to do what was done is shocking but not surprizing. He isn't the first person to be beat to death and certainly won't be the last.
Without putting scorn on this mans death I still say you reap what you so and perhaps what went around finally caught up with him.
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Post by Blue Angel on Mar 22, 2008 20:29:55 GMT
We had these problems on the estate I lived on as a kid which was notorious in this part of London at that time with a few well known families ruling the roost and believing they could do what they liked. Things came to a head when they started in on the local Asian families who had just moved on to the estate a few years before. They had no idea how clannish many Asian families are and how an insult to one member is a perceived as an insult to all. One middle aged gent in that community who was fairly militant took it upon himself to ask around and hold a meeting where the local men having had just about enough went and politely asked the local idiots to stop bullying people, bothering local girls and been generally agressive dickheads (the police service in East London was and is famed for it's inability to hold the proverbial piss up in a brewery so no-one had bothered with them). The response was along the lines of we run this manor at which case everybody said okay went off came back a bit later with various tools such as hammers, cricket bats etc. etc. and for starters beat the shit out of the hoods cars and houses and when a few got mouthy beat the shit out of them to. I can't say I love that sort of thing but it did work and we had a normal estate afterwards where people felt safe to do their shopping and live their lifes. Of course our local boys in blue turned up to ask questions (not seen before that much though by anyone on the estate...) but everyone had suddenly got an alibi for everyone else...
Same thing happened nearby with gangs trying to run prostitutes and drug dealing on a major residential street. Again the local community got bullied mercilessly till about 40 odd blokes turned up and pointed out any more nonsense wouldn't be tolerated.
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Post by Jim on Mar 22, 2008 22:00:39 GMT
If we do anything here then apparently the IRA have done it and it messes around at a government level, so thats not much of an option now. Could always ask the UDA to come up and sort em out  fella in work told me about what they do to joyriders and hoods in east belfast and i think its great, I'm sick of this shite, its okay for me to fuck off to england but my mam lives here and has to walk past the scum every day to get to work. |
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Post by Wasp on Mar 27, 2008 20:39:40 GMT
Are these the same fuckwit incompetants that never caught some of the ira terrorists on the run, the same as those who acted on info and it proved to be the wrong info at times etc. How can we have terrorist sympathisers/memebers/leaders from a party that still has an army council to deal with matters as sensitive as policing in particular policing terrorsit matters.
The officers on the ground are capable enough of passing what legislation etc they need to their superiors and so forth. When the strong finger of suspician and guilt involving crimes such as Mccartney and Quinn etc stop, which should mean the ira have stopped and the army council is scrapped then we will take note of all sinn feins points and more than likely agree with them.
Its like asking bank robbers to have a say in looking after banks, while the bank robbers have their gang leadership still intact.
Its a joke.
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Post by Jim on Mar 27, 2008 21:22:15 GMT
Fuck me you are a broken record. Can we leave out what the IRA done in the troubles out of a conversation for five minutes and talk about now?
1. Officers don't pass buckin' legislation, parliament does. Stormont can't pass justice legislation.
2. The Quinn murder has never ever been proven to be the IRA, unless you can convict the IRA in a court of law, your thoughts pn the matter are only thoughts, opinions. Y
You call for trails for some people and jailing for suspicion for others otherwise. And you say we have double standards, catch yerself on.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 27, 2008 22:38:17 GMT
I must be turning into a republican then. Who gives the advice and info on what is needed or required? Areas in England are every bit as bad if not worse than here so parliament has plenty of valuable experience in dealing with and trying to tackle these problems. Sadly many vile murders went unsolved here with the security forces and the gov. etc knowing alot of those who were guilty but got off with it or they just hadn't that wee bit of the jigsaw to put everything in place. How many people have buried loved ones and had never anyone brought to jstice for it. What makes me think of double standards here is the facgt this murder is the type of many murders that republicans supported and carried out. Now its happened to them they want something done about it. Remember the brutal murder of the two army coporals? There are many many more that the ira ordered and carried out. This man was part of that organisation, he suffered a terrible death just like the terrible deaths the butchers in his organisation carried out. What goes round comes around. |
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Post by Jim on Mar 28, 2008 2:10:08 GMT
Advice is given by the police but it doesnt need to be listened too and a lot of the time, isnt. Committees have no power to change a bill. Areas in England are in a different situation than us, they have race as another angle to deal with and we don't have that. Divis is a lot more rough than Moss Side, I'll tell you that.
Wasp how many people got locked away for years and at the end just got told "sorry we fucked up", if they were lucky? I know what the paramilitaries done and I know what the Brits and RUC done, thats not relevant to this argument, its in the past and we must think to the future, one without the british army, secterian police forces and the IRA.
The man was brutally beaten to death and the people that done it took great pleasure in doing it. You're an absolute fucking hypocrite if you think thats okay.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 28, 2008 14:14:53 GMT
Jim I am sure you have heard in the news and read in papers about all the top level meetings between gov. and the police on these issues. We have a racist problem, we have hoods and gangs all over the place, we have a big drug problem but we haven't reached the violence among teenagers that say London has witnessed with all the stabbings etc. Westminster is in a very good position to deal with these issues in any part of the UK.
Not too many although no legal system in the world can say that so called miscarriages of justice never happened. Terrible as it is, but there were alot more walked scot free who were as guilty as hell. How many walked the streets who committed horrific crimes and were never jailed?
No Jim the sectarian ira is still under the spotlight, after years of sectarian carnage what does anyone expect then add that to the murders and crime since the ceasefire. In 2005 for example McGuinness said in a radio interview that the northern bank robbery represented criminality, he couldn't bring himself to say it was a crime. With all this wanted transparency and the wanting of everyone to be answerable to someone etc are sinn fein going to name the names on the ira army council and are they going to bring it to an end?? If not they are not fit to be involved in devotution of policing powers by a long shot.
Not once did I say it is ok, I have plainly said what I think of this, but why do you have a problem with me saying what goes round comes around, this man was involved in an organisation that handed out many horrific beatings and murders such as the two coporals in Belfast where the ira showed they took pleasure in their horrific deaths? But now it has happened to a murderer who was part of a violent sectarian murdering machine which has the worst record of child abuse (as proved by cain) I am meant to have a different view. When people were begging terrorists to stop the violence, family after family burying loved ones the ira and many of their supporters kept on supporting their vile actions.
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Post by Jim on Mar 28, 2008 14:59:47 GMT
I didn't deny that the government meets with top brass police. My point was that the government doesnt have to take any of it, a lot of it is propaganda, to show that Labour listen to the institutions which leads to votes in local council elections particularly.
Westminster is in a terrible position to deal with these issues, we aren't even on the same island, so our drug trading is different, nevermind how to deal with the hoods which are much more viscious here, and to deal with the links that certain community groups (that dont exist in england!!!!!) here interact with the community and the police. England don't have that. It has as much knowledge about our problem as the Reichstag does.
If you can't get over the IRA then thats your problem. I'm well over the UDA UVF RUC and the Brits. It doesnt effect how I see what way we should be doing things in the present and the future. If you're more concerned with the language McGuinness uses (because somehow criminality doesnt equal a crime? catch yourself on) then you need to get your priorities sorted.
Because you look at things on a group level and not an individual level. You never knew this man, I didn't even know him, I just knew of him since I live on the same street. We can all go on about what organisations done, I could rant for days about the brits and the ruc, but where does that get me? fucking no where.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 28, 2008 19:48:29 GMT
And what of the two coporals that were brutally murdered?
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fella in work told me about what they do to joyriders and hoods in east belfast and i think its great, I'm sick of this shite, its okay for me to fuck off to england but my mam lives here and has to walk past the scum every day to get to work.