MP's attend Dail Commitee

[earl]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for the hell of it and ask, Is SF taking their seats at Westminister?

Is it just me, or does the Dail committee room look like the war room in Dr. Strangelove?

[Jim]

What has it got to do with SF taking their seats at westminster? You have to pledge allegiance to the Queen to sit in westminster. I doubt MPs are made to pledge anything to Dail Eireann; they arent elected to Dail Eireann, they're giving / recieving consultation basically. What are unionists going to do if there are ever recommended changes to the GFA? "We wherent involved so it doesnt happen"? Simple reply would be "you didnt involve yourself".

Furthermore Westminster takes very little to do with the running of NI, that was the point of the GFA. Stormont is devolved from Westminster, if you look at the transcripts from 1919-1925 you'll see a complete drop in NI debates in Westminster, and likewise in the various times Stormont has went up and down.

[Republic]

Does the committee have any power? If not, I don't see why unionists should be criticised for not attending.

Unionists generally dont want any involvement with the Irish state and they dont consider themselves irish.
So I cannot understand the surprise at the unionist no-show in Dublin.

Was it not to be expected?

[Wasp]

Good point Earl.

[Jim]

republic said:

Does the committee have any power? If not, I don't see why unionists should be criticised for not attending.

Unionists generally dont want any involvement with the Irish state and they dont consider themselves irish.
So I cannot understand the surprise at the unionist no-show in Dublin.

Was it not to be expected?

The SDLP dont consider themselves British, but they take part in Westminster and its committees. Its nothing to do with what you consider yourself, if unionist MPs want to be idealistic and pretend they're being hardliners by not attending meetings on the good friday agreement, thats their problem, makes the job of republicans easier.

The committee wasnt set up to be a waffling session, it was set up for a reason.

Then again, I suppose, the DUP had little say in the GFA. Whos fault is that?

[Republic]

I dont disagree with anything you've said. But why such surprise when unionists consistently reject any all-ireland approaches to anything?

Its to be expected, is it not?

'' if unionist MPs want to be idealistic and pretend they're being hardliners by not attending meetings on the good friday agreement''

I dont think they are pretending, I think they are definitely hardline in their attitude to irish involvement in NIs affairs.

[Jim]

republic said:

I dont disagree with anything you've said. But why such surprise when unionists consistently reject any all-ireland approaches to anything?

Its to be expected, is it not?

'' if unionist MPs want to be idealistic and pretend they're being hardliners by not attending meetings on the good friday agreement''

I dont think they are pretending, I think they are definitely hardline in their attitude to irish involvement in NIs affairs.

It is pretending. They've accepted the Dails role in the north, they take part in north-south committees, the only reason they didnt take part in this one was because it was held at the Dail and not some place in the middle of Armagh.

If any new sensible proposals come from this meeting, the DUP may not be whinging about not being involved, they didnt involve themselves and thus took out the say of the unionist people from any overviews. Wont be my fault, wont be SFs fault and it wont be Bertie's fault.

If SF was tomorrow invited to attend a committee on the GFA in Westminster tomorrow without swearing anything I'd be in favour of them going to London, because it effects me, my family, my friends, my money, my education, my cost of living, my voting rights, my human rights, my legal rights, everything. I voted for SF to represent those issues for me, so I'd expect them to get on with it. If I voted for the DUP I'd expect the same thing, anyone who voted for the DUP should expect the sam thing, its why you elected them.

[Republic]

setanta said:

So why did they sight up to the North South Institutions and attend those meetings, accept Irish Government Funding, and agree cross border infrastructure programmes.
They're not being asked to swear alligence to An Dail before they take a seat, they were invited to review the projects progress so far and their refusal is farcical.

I dont know why they signed up tbh.

I think its the symbolism of meeting in the Dáil which is the sticking point.
We all know the importance of symbolism in such a tribal society.

Its not right IMO, but I never expected them to attend either.

[Republic]

jim said:

If SF was tomorrow invited to attend a committee on the GFA in Westminster tomorrow without swearing anything I'd be in favour of them going to London, because it effects me, my family, my friends, my money, my education, my cost of living, my voting rights, my human rights, my legal rights, everything. I voted for SF to represent those issues for me, so I'd expect them to get on with it. If I voted for the DUP I'd expect the same thing, anyone who voted for the DUP should expect the sam thing, its why you elected them.

Republicanism is more about (or at least trying and/or pretending) to improve the conditions of the ordinary citizen, and that is why you have those expectations.

I dont think unionism has ever had those expectations, because unionism has largely been about maintaining the status quo, and to hell with everything else, including London if need be.

They are doing what they have always done, maintain the status quo. And if that means stick your fingers in your ears and shout lalalalalala as loud as possible, then that is what unionist leaders will do.
They always have done, and dont seem to show much signs of changing.
Evidently, the majority of unionists are, if not happy, at least accepting of this approach.

So to expect them to attend a Dáil meeting is a bit of a stretch.

[Jim]

There are various loyalist organisations that are there to improve the conditions of their communities. Some took part in GFA negiotations.

Even if its a stretch, the DUP may not complain if something comes out of this. They'll not have that luxury, they'll be told "you didnt go". I'd be annoyed if I was a unionist.

[Wasp]

TBH I am far from annoyed and I would not want any of my representitives to go to this.

[Jim]

Dont whinge when your not included in new talks then.

[Wasp]

I don't want to be included in new talks if it involves increasing any say the republic has in our affairs.

[Jim]

Then keep burying your head in the sand. Seems to be working so far.

[Wasp]

Well didn't republicans bury their heads in the sand for years when everyone else was crying out for peace and begging for an end to violence?