Irish will need passports to visit Britain from 20

[Blue Angel]

i found the difference between british and turkish customs hilarious as believe it or no this is the first time in my life i have been on one of them metal flying things. Britain, seriously controlled customs - strip your shoes off - examine all items in hand luggage. I had to take my belt of as it has a heavy buckle in the shape of a stratocaster and it kept setting the detector off. Then coming back in turkey it did the same the guy passing me through just went no bother and let me wonder through. And no-one even asked me to put my ipod or items from pocket in a tray or anything. That said I found the airport in turkey cleaner and tidy and better laid out than gatwick which i found f***ing messy and confusing.

[Jim]

Its a pain in the fucking arse mate! Going out to Germany, had to take my coat off, take my shoes and belt off, get touched up by some ex-army fella saying my army jacket brought back memories, take everything out of my pockets and then put my bag through the scanner.

On the way back, going through Germany had to show my passport twice, put my bag through a scanner and got waved through, that was it, onto the flight. When I got back to Belfast I had to show my passport about 4 or 5 times at different points, you know, just incase I've grown a beard within the past 5 minutes.

Nearly missed a flight to England once with all those security checks, because the line was so long.

[earl]

Sure look at who carried out the London bombings. Teachers, nannies and wasn't there a load of doctors implicated in another plot? So please tell me how these ID cards are supposed to root out these people who are in respectable positions in British society?

[An Fear Dubh]

It is funny that I rarely get stopped traveling to England or to Europe, but I do get followed a lot.

[Harry]

I hear what your saying and agree with alot of it but i hear no one offering anything better. ID systems will in some way keep track of things better, i agree those with evil intentions will try and find some way around but we must try and hinder these people the best we can. Airport security is a pain and i've been annoyed many times, taking my shoes, belt etc etc of, but its worth it and no one can tell me otherwise.

[An Fear Dubh]

I have to say I disagree Harry as Earl has pointed out recent attacks in Britain have been carried out or have been linked to people with no previous 'form'. How does biometric ID cards 'hinder' such people?

It does not hinder them in the slightest. So obviously 'security analysis' who offer governments advice know this. Why then do we still have such ineffective actions pushed onto society?

It is when you ask yourself this question and begin to formulate the answer that you realize the truth.

[Jim]

There really isnt anything you can offer. If someone wants to go and blow themselves up on a bus, they will do it, its not a matter of if its a matter of when. No ID card in the world is going to stop it.

The worrying thing about the biometric ID cards is the information is going to be sold by the government to private corporations, your medical details, your house details, your physical description, what medication you take. I dont want no fucker knowing whats right and wrong with me.

[An Fear Dubh]

Come see me Jim I will fix you up with as many biometric ID's as you want, and you can have all the ailments you want, I will even change your sex with your long hair it would be easy!

[Jim]

Cheers for the offer afd, would smallpox be alright?

[earl]

harry said:

I hear what your saying and agree with alot of it but i hear no one offering anything better. ID systems will in some way keep track of things better, i agree those with evil intentions will try and find some way around but we must try and hinder these people the best we can. Airport security is a pain and i've been annoyed many times, taking my shoes, belt etc etc of, but its worth it and no one can tell me otherwise.

It's my view that a lot of these so called security measures are chipping away at the freedom we hold so dear. The terrorists don't need to blow something up to affect us. The fear of it is enough. Many of these terrorists come from countries with very little freedom, and they can see that they can chip away at ours by simply making everyone scared. The governments of the UK and USA are doing the terrorists work for them. Many of the security measures are inadequate and make ours lives worse off (thats 1-0 to the terrorists), and that's at the light end of the spectrum. Many security policies marginalise whole sections of a community, making anyone with a certain profile a suspect. This makes these people think, "Well, if I'm going to be treated like a terrorist, then I may as well act like one!" (an over-simplification, but you get the jist). So a foreign terrorist doesn't even need to get into a country, because the governments security policies is starting to mature some home grown ones. They then co-ordinate over the Internet. 2-0 to the terrorists and you're no safer.
Just because it's the only idea available, doesn't make it a good one.

[An Fear Dubh]

Mmm that is up to you but it might limit your travel plans!

[Harry]

Again i see your points. Has anyone got any good ideas on how we can target the terrorists without hindering the public??? Surely Islamic terrorists are also an enemy to you or is it the case of my enemies enemy is my friend??? Yeah maybe we could start a new thread ;D ;D

[Republic]

earl said:

harry said:

I hear what your saying and agree with alot of it but i hear no one offering anything better. ID systems will in some way keep track of things better, i agree those with evil intentions will try and find some way around but we must try and hinder these people the best we can. Airport security is a pain and i've been annoyed many times, taking my shoes, belt etc etc of, but its worth it and no one can tell me otherwise.

It's my view that a lot of these so called security measures are chipping away at the freedom we hold so dear. The terrorists don't need to blow something up to affect us. The fear of it is enough. Many of these terrorists come from countries with very little freedom, and they can see that they can chip away at ours by simply making everyone scared. The governments of the UK and USA are doing the terrorists work for them. Many of the security measures are inadequate and make ours lives worse off (thats 1-0 to the terrorists), and that's at the light end of the spectrum. Many security policies marginalise whole sections of a community, making anyone with a certain profile a suspect. This makes these people think, "Well, if I'm going to be treated like a terrorist, then I may as well act like one!" (an over-simplification, but you get the jist). So a foreign terrorist doesn't even need to get into a country, because the governments security policies is starting to mature some home grown ones. They then co-ordinate over the Internet. 2-0 to the terrorists and you're no safer.
Just because it's the only idea available, doesn't make it a good one.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Benjamin Franklin.

[Jim]

The idea of islamic terrorism is a contradiction in itself. Its not about oil and its not imperialism its about indoctrination. The religion itself, islam, is heavily split on a lot of issues because its where hardliners take it word for word or moderates take it in context with the modern day and other philosphical arguements. Some say its fine that muslim men can go out and kill themselves in the name of god and take everyone with them if its for the right cause, where others say its outdated and that countries like Britain contain far too many ethnics and religions to do so.

No biometric ID card is going to solve that, no border control, ID check, passport, of profiling of an entire race of people is going to solve that, its going to make it worse. When you have MI5 spying on mosques it angers people, when you have them stalking you it angers people. In Belfast I know a fella from Algeria very well who goes to the local mosque and only moved to Ireland about 5 years ago. He said as soon as he entered the country they kept an eye on him, following him around and watching his every move and eventually he was interned and released that night after questioning. This fella is very much against the idea of Jihad and believes it is a personal struggle not a political one. But when you do that to too many people, you anger them, you make them want to sort it out themselves and its the best recruiting device Al Qaeda could ever bloody hope for. Just like when hundreds joined or supportedthe 'ra after the first few internments. It solves nothing.

The only way to solve it is to support moderate preachers and for the religion itself to modernise which is slowly happening. This can only happen in countries where the religion is not the rule of law, like Lebannon, Turkey or the Iraq under Saddam Hussein (putting aside his own convictons for a second, the country was secular in practise).

[Shades40]

People don't seriously believe all this bogey men terrorists are coming to nuke us bs, fear being used a tool to destroy your rights and give the Government a free reign?