Fianna Fail to organise in 32 Counties

[Jim]

Surely the SDLP would be more likely to merge with Labour?

If Fianna Fail do go up north they'll have a bit on their hands, new fighting grounds and all that.

I'd not vote for them, I'll continue to vote Sinn Fein, at most I'd give Fianna Fail my last preferences.

[Jim]

I've said for a while that the day Fianna Fail stand for election in the north, it confirms a united Ireland is achievable.

Fianna Fail arent going to want Sinn Fein becoming the second or third largest party in an all ireland Dail and real contenders for government that could exclude them, so it makes sense to start preparing northerners to vote for FF. I wonder if they'll canvass loyalist areas too.

[Republic]

It would be interesting to see if they would canvass in loyalist areas.
On the whole, I think its a great thing FF are organising in NI.
If nothing else, it will show unionists a different side of Irishness than the SF brand.

And if things go well, it will do considerable damage to SF. FF may have a rough time at the start but once they get settled in, they will be hard to stop.

Jim, out of curiosity, why would you stay with SF rather than FF?
I'm just interested to know why.
Is it a case of you would always vote SF regardless, or would you switch allegiance if FF were better able to cater to your needs?

[Republic]

setanta said:

This isn't bad for us. This is brilliant! They shore up the stoops vote, especially in marginal areas where seats to and fro from the stoops to Unionists, they'll thow tonnes of money into their campaigns and small "u" Unionists and Alliance voters may be attracted by their economic success's.

Or they could do what they did in the south and kick the shit out of ye in an election??

They could also take away votes from SF as well as the SDLP.

If FF are in govt in the south, some less committed SF voters may vote for FF in the hopes of getting a FF govt in both jurisdictions.

I wouldnt be so sure that this is a good thing for SF.

As regards small 'u' unionists, they will most likely have a great deal more respect for Bertie and FF, but I would imagine tribal loyalties will win out when it comes to election time.
The bertie factor is a key one IMO. His presence is the biggest thing that SF have to worry out. He has already stolen the limelight from them for the peace process.

What do unionists think of the possibility of FF organising in NI?

[Jim]

republic said:

It would be interesting to see if they would canvass in loyalist areas.
On the whole, I think its a great thing FF are organising in NI.
If nothing else, it will show unionists a different side of Irishness than the SF brand.

And if things go well, it will do considerable damage to SF. FF may have a rough time at the start but once they get settled in, they will be hard to stop.

Jim, out of curiosity, why would you stay with SF rather than FF?
I'm just interested to know why.
Is it a case of you would always vote SF regardless, or would you switch allegiance if FF were better able to cater to your needs?

Firstly, because SF put a lot of effort into community issues and do a brilliant job at their constituent role, Fianna Fail will most likely be putting up candidates that have never lived in West Belfast, or know anything about West Belfast.

I would give FF a preference after SF, just like I gave the SDLP my 5th preference (Attwood) after 4 SF preferences.

Secondly, I support the provisional republican movement and agree with the steps the SF leadership have taken over the years.

There wouldnt be a repeat of the 2007 southern election between FF and SF, Sinn Fein rule the roost up here in nationalist/republican areas, they've probably got a more dedicated vote in the north than FF do in the south, because our politics arent normal. Economic policies and the like come in second to who will achieve what we want first. If I want to vote for a non-tribal party I'd vote Green.

[Shades40]

Having they been doing this every year from 2004.

[Republic]

jim said:

There wouldnt be a repeat of the 2007 southern election between FF and SF, Sinn Fein rule the roost up here in nationalist/republican areas, they've probably got a more dedicated vote in the north than FF do in the south, because our politics arent normal. Economic policies and the like come in second to who will achieve what we want first. If I want to vote for a non-tribal party I'd vote Green.

Thats a good a reason as any I suppose.
How do you feel about FF's ability to match SF's groundwork? ie do you think they will, or can, match them?

[Republic]

Dude I've siad it here before that I don't care who delivers a United Ireland as long as it happens.

Fair enough.

If we lose seats but Nationalisms hand is streghtened then it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

Fair enough again.

As it stands Sinn Féin is the Third Party in all of Ireland. FF aren't going to bury us. Section 30 couldn't bury us. We stood in all but 2 Constituancies in May and next time we'll be establised everywhere. We're rebuilding for the 09 Local and Europeans, bringing in new candidates and no feckin parachute candidates and working on articulating our policies more clearly.

We've gone through this before and I still dont think the problem is with articulation, its the policies themselves. But at least SF are sticking to their guns, which is admirable. I suppose.

We've increased our vote in the last 15 elections North and South and we'll increase again. On a bad day in May 05 we lost 1 seat but increased our vote

Votes increased because you ran in more constituencies, thats all.

and people, like yourself, were prepared to consign us to the history books.

Not at all. Im not a SF fan, but I do not think they are just going to go away. If nothing else, they have longevity.
I do not see them going away for a long time either, they have too much support in NI.

Spin it all you like but we're going no where but up.

When you're at the bottom, thats the only way you can go ;D


One of my biggest problems with SF is the scumbag element that follows them around. You know the ones, all the hard men who talk shite about the ra, brits and prods and who haven't a clue about politics or the true history of this island.
The 'wannabe' soldiers, in other words.

I also have a distaste for SF's spin and triumphalism. But triumphalism is a feature of NI in general so please dont think I'm solely singling out SF alone on that score.

So, I do not like your party or its policies, but I haven't consigned them to history at all.

[Jim]

republic said:

jim said:

There wouldnt be a repeat of the 2007 southern election between FF and SF, Sinn Fein rule the roost up here in nationalist/republican areas, they've probably got a more dedicated vote in the north than FF do in the south, because our politics arent normal. Economic policies and the like come in second to who will achieve what we want first. If I want to vote for a non-tribal party I'd vote Green.

Thats a good a reason as any I suppose.
How do you feel about FF's ability to match SF's groundwork? ie do you think they will, or can, match them?

I honestly don't know, I've never encountered Fianna Fail because I'm from the North. I've not heard how much ground work they do but I have suspicions they arent just a party that shows up come canvass season and expect votes either.

As we normalise politically people are getting more concerned with normal issues, but it doesnt mean they'll forget about Sinn Fein and what happened over the troubles. Most people know ex IRA men on day to day life, take that how you want but that element in northern republican vote will always be there and its not something Fianna Fail are able to remove.

In the south you can call yourself republican if you simply except the state as-is, its not that easy up here. In the south you've got people like McDowell claiming to be true republicans and to us up north its a load of shit.

[earl]

Don't know what to make of this news. Can't see FF knocking SF off te top pearch in NI for quite some time either way. There is a risk of votes in contested areas being split. The interesting bit about this is not what would happen, but why have FF chosen now above any other time to do this? They are the masters of oppertunism. They smell a fresh kill.

[Republic]

But you've never given me a policy that you actually know that you find unpalatable.

perhaps policy was the wrong word. maybe I should have said ideology.

What does that tell you? We're spreading and able to mount campaigns everywhere now. In time that'll be turned into Elected Reps.................... if we do our work and guard against careerists

That doesnt tell me that at all. It could be that SF had gained its maximum vote in each constituency. I dont think either of us can say for sure though.

We were always in the 26 as well. Since the decision to contest elections down here we've always had seats here as well.

I know, I didnt say otherwise.

We aren't on the bottom though dude! Look what happened to the PD's and then you'll see what's on the bottom.

I was winding you up. But ye arent far from the bottom in fairness. The PDs are in govt

Ahh man you gave me a fright! I looked behind me expecting to see a gang of track suit clad skobies drinking Dutch Gold.
I work in an office in D2. Am I the face of Sinn Féin or are non-members who purport to support us?

SF has different faces IMO.

I do know the type you're on about, I've had run ins with people claiming to be members after they bought a lotto ticket once and mouthing off in pubs.BUT, we were the only ones not to abandon disadvantaged areas where there are more social problems so that's why there's more support for us there then FF who ignored the problems their policies created through bad planning and apathy. People in disadvantaged areas support us because we're the ones that they've had contact with and helped them out. We also picked up 300 votes in Millionaires row in Howth in the last locals so you can't tar all our supporters with that brush.
If you ever want to come to a function then let me know and you'll see the mix of people that support us and not only the "dark side of Sinn Féin supporters" that some lazy ill informed journo writes about.

Its not about disadvantaged areas, or journalists. Its the spin that SF puts on everything that allows the scumbag element to act like they are rebels or hardmen. It justifies their bigotry.

When you've had to sit in a pub during a Celtic and Rangers match, or during an england international match, and listen to those scumbags talk about proddy bastards, then perhaps you will have the same distaste for republican spin.

I'm Irish and have never known anything else, have no allegiance to anywhere else, yet I have to sit quietly while I hear scumbags talk about oppression by prods and brits, when they clearly do not have a clue about irish history or politics.

Now that is only a minority, but it is still deeply discomforting to hear such shite in my own country.

Thankfully, most people are not like that, and I have never experienced any discrimination other than that.


I know you will say thats not the official SF line, but why do all of those assholes identify themselves as republicans.

Before SF talks about a shared future, they should explain to their followers the truth about the past. Perhaps it might surprise a few of them to learn that the founder of the original SF was a supporter of the monarchy.

Rant over.

[/quote] You just don't know us well enough ;D[/quote]

Well then you're not doing a good enough job explaining to us

[Republic]

The second biggest Republic Commemoration is for Wolfe Tone and we highlight who the man was every single year.

Thats great, now could you tell all of those assholes that prods are as irish as anyone else?

I agree but what is it you think we can do about Drunk Celtic fans?

Look at the SF shop, its blatantly anti-british. I know it is in a northern context, but when idiots down here see things like that, they think its ok to be against anything british or protestant.

Eh Michael McDowell identifies himself as a Republican! You can't hold us responsible for that either.

He is not identifying himslef as the same type of republican as a SF republican.

I think the reason they identify themselves as Republican is because the majority of Irish people are in the spectrum of Republicanism somewhere

probably correct

and then there's the fact that we're probably the only party they see in their schemes (that's a corporation neighbourhood) outside election time.

Yeaaaaah,that and him being anti-Semitic is the reason we don't commemorate him. We leave that to Fine Gael

you dont have to commemorate him but at least educate your followers about him. Its that shite of ignoring the more distasteful elements of our history, which allows this idea of us being flawless to run rampant. So the brits and prods get all the blame instead.

You don't give us the chance to!

Come on now. I have probably made more threads asking Qs about SF than most. Remember the run up to the election, I hounded you with Qs!! Just because I dont agree with it, does not mean i havent given you a chance.

We're getting less and less media time now and the stuff that is in the media is mostly negative. That's why we pound the street more than other parties, so we can tell people what we're about.

But when people are constantly reading in the Indo/Sindo/Herald that "sources indicated that a certain un-named individual, known to Gardaì, who they suspect of being involved in criminality, may have links to local Sinn Féin figures", it paints a bad picture. They keep throwing the mud and some obviously sticks even though there's fuck all of substance behind it.
I know your opinion of us is coloured by the media in the way that you write.

Again, wtf, I have read widely enough and studied long enough not to take what I read as truth.
It is obvious the Sindo has an agenda against SF.

The media are not colouring my view of SF, SF's own spin and hooligan element is what is colouring my view of them.

Give me more credit and respect than to assume I blindly buy into the crap the media spouts out.


I always appear crtical of SF because you give off the image that they are a perfect party and that they have never done anything wrong.

Can you tell me honestly, have you any reservations about the party? ie policy, ideology, support of ira, etc

Or do you agree with absolutely every aspect of SF?

Sometimes its hard to believe you as it seems you are just giving the official party line on everything, in contrast to AFD, who, in fairness to him, calls it as he sees it.

It apperas you sometimes do not wish to criticise SF in case we all jump down your throat, but it would certainly make you seem more reasonable and open to debate if you expressed any reservations.

If you have any, that is!

[Jim]

If anyone thinks FF will split the SF vote they are very wrong.

FF have absolutely no history up here infact some people see them as the Irish government that wouldnt come to help during the troubles, ignorant or not. People will not just drop and vote for FF when they dont know anything about them.

[Republic]

jim said:

If anyone thinks FF will split the SF vote they are very wrong.

FF have absolutely no history up here infact some people see them as the Irish government that wouldnt come to help during the troubles, ignorant or not. People will not just drop and vote for FF when they dont know anything about them.

What if FF seem more likely to secure a united Ireland?

[Jim]

Well mate, I know people who dont know who Fianna Fail are, they just know Bertie Ahern.

I dont think FF are any more likely to secure a united Ireland than Sinn Fein are, personally. FF have been trying to keep a moderate balance and will do so when they stand for election when they try and take some unionist votes, if that works out.