Army Admits Not Defeating The IRA

[Harry]

Army admits 'not defeating IRA'

The Army admits mistakes over Bloody Sunday
The Army has admitted for the first time that it did not win the war against the IRA.
The admission is contained in an internal document released by the Ministry of Defence after a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

The Army also admitted mistakes were made on Bloody Sunday, but only in how it deployed its vehicles.

The 100 page document analyses in detail the British army's role in Northern Ireland over 37 years.

It focuses on specific operations as well as providing an overview of its performance.

The document, obtained by the Pat Finucane Centre, points to a number of mistakes, including internment and highlights what lessons have been learnt.

It describes the IRA as "a professional, dedicated, highly skilled and resilient force", while loyalist paramilitaries and other republican groups are described as "little more than a collection of gangsters".

The Army admits mistakes over Bloody Sunday - but only in how it used vehicles during the arrest operation.

It concedes for the first time that it did not win the battle against the IRA - but claims to have "shown the IRA that it could not achieve its ends through violence".

In a statement, the Pat Finucane Centre - a human rights group - said the document "betrays a profoundly colonial mindset towards the conflict here and those involved in it".

"Loyalist violence and the links between loyalist paramilitaries and the state has been airbrushed out of this military history," it said.

[Bilk]

I always take any statement made by any human rights group with a rather large dose of salt. Human rights groups invariably only ever care about the human rights of terrorists and their like. They have absolutely no interest in the human rights of the ordrinary man or woman on the street going about their lawful business.
As for the title of the thread? The British army is still with us, the IRA (as in the provo's) are allegedly not. The political status of Northern Ireland as a constituant part of the UK remains, That sounds like a defeat to me.

[earl]

I guess it depends who you talk to Bilk. Some would say the IRA are now at the head of your government with an equal say. Personally, I believe that the IRA were defeated by the ordinary man, who stood up and said to all paramillitaries, 'Enough!'

[Bilk]

Wouldn't disagree with either of you here, but would agree stronly with earl. They were bot defeated by force but by public opinion.

[Jim]

bilk said:

As for the title of the thread? The British army is still with us, the IRA (as in the provo's) are allegedly not. The political status of Northern Ireland as a constituant part of the UK remains, That sounds like a defeat to me.

The british army are the army of a country, no one has said the IRA beat the army either, and the UK only remains part of the UK for the time being if you believe it could shift in time to come, like I do.

[Bilk]

That was always the case Jim, as it is with Scotland and Wales. As long as the majority of the people wish it, so these too will remain a part of the UK. The whole point of the IRA murder campaign was to overturn that rule of democracy in Northern Ireland. They, the IRA, failed. And it's leaders are now playing an active part in the government of Northern Ireland. The status quo remains, as in this part of the UK will remain a part of the UK as long as it's citezens so wish it, that is what the IRA tried to change and they failed. They were defeated whatever way you look at it. In the end they were defeated not by an army, but by the people.

[Blue Angel]

How could the IRA possibly overturn the rule of democracy in a state that was never built on such foundations in the first place?

[Jim]

bilk said:

That was always the case Jim, as it is with Scotland and Wales. As long as the majority of the people wish it, so these too will remain a part of the UK. The whole point of the IRA murder campaign was to overturn that rule of democracy in Northern Ireland. They, the IRA, failed. And it's leaders are now playing an active part in the government of Northern Ireland. The status quo remains, as in this part of the UK will remain a part of the UK as long as it's citezens so wish it, that is what the IRA tried to change and they failed. They were defeated whatever way you look at it. In the end they were defeated not by an army, but by the people.

Like said above the state was never formed on a democratic basis in the first place, when the provisionals came into existence the word 'democracy' was a joke for this place, just an illusion. Without the IRA, without other paramilitaries, the army, the civil rights movements, the parties and the people (all things that shaped todays NI) we wouldnt have had trouble but we wouldnt have had change either. The provisionals formed by people from the north, not the south, people that lived in NI and it wasnt for a while that they 'dedicated' themselves to the removal of the british government and army. Bad unfair government for 40 years does that to a country.

The IRA where not defeated nor did they win, it came to an end. The british army where not defeated nor did they win, it came to an end. Theres no need for the words defeat or victory. Thats my views on it at least. The reason the IRA existed has ended so there is no need for the IRA, its as simple as that, which then means the british army are not needed. The only ones that need a kick up the arse these days are the UDA.