No Polish Peelers, afterall

[An Fear Dubh]

It seems strange that of the 600 applicants not one qualified.

[An Fear Dubh]

I think here in the north as part of the Patten report it was suggested to reduce the number of reserves as this would reduce the inequality in numbers from one section of the community. As the reserves out numbered the full-time.
But are you saying that the standarded expected for a reserve should be lower than the standard of a full-time police officer? As I think with the Polish applicants only two passed stage one, (written exam) and did not bother to show for stage two. I think the standard should be constant, as either way they will be expected to administer the Law.

[An Fear Dubh]

If one Polish person or even the two who passed the exam were employed there is no guarantee he/she would ever meet another Pole during their street patrols, unless sent to a situation. As for interviews and other contacts translators can be employed, when needed, there is a lot more to police work than language skills.

[An Fear Dubh]

Well in Belfast it is different, leather jackets are not the clothing of choice for Polish people. And as far as I know the PSNI only patrol in the north.

[Harry]

They have to be up to scratch and i agree with AFD that translators can be employed when the situation arises. We can't employ unfit people to be peelers simply because they are from one comunity. Its this positive discrimination again which really really grips my shit!!!!!! The best man or woman should always get the jon regardless of race, sex, politics, religion etc etc etc

[Harry]

setanta said:

So it's 2am and there's a brawl outside a nightclub involving locals and Poles. How do you get the Poles side of the story if they aren't fluent?

Not bothered, they should be speaking English and if they don't then they have to accept that getting their side of the story is going to be that more difficult. Its mental to consider employing someone as a police officer based on their language skills alone. If they pass all the tests like everyone else then great but if they don't then they aren't good enough to be police officers. No problem employing some of them in some sort of suppport role but its just the same as employing translators.

[Jim]

Hes not living there full time though. The majority of poles can speak English, or an acceptable level of English. Same with the Germans, French, Italians, etc. They all learn English in school and most do remember it. I learnt french in school and cant say one word.

I dont like the attitude of "you need to speak fluent english to live here" but I do think you need to be able to string a sentence together.

[Harry]

English is the business language of the world. Through training courses at work i meet people from almost every corner of the earth and the majority of them can speak good English. Its embarrasing for me when i can't speak a word of their language but its down to the fact that learning languages isn't a major priority in our education system. Like Jim, i only learned French at school and would now struggle to string a sentence together in French.

When i go abroad i hope the locals can speak English but i don't expect it. I'm in their country and its up to me to adapt to their language not the other way around. We are very fortunate because we speak English and almost everywhere you go most locals can speak the bear minimum.

I don't believe police officers should be given jobs simply because they can speak a foreign language. If they can pass all the tests, like every other police officer does then fine, they are good enough for the job and should be selected. If however they fail or aren't up to scratch but have something to offer in a translator role then fine, employ them for that role but not as a fully fledged police officer.

[earl]

There's a Pole working in development in my new place. Lovely guy. Incredibly High skilled too. They're coming for us Setanta! There's also an Indian who lived in Donegal for 20 years, without picking up a syllabl of the accent! A cricket lover and player. I said to him I bet he didn't get to play a lot in Donegal!
I read in the papers this morning that bookshops are going to start to stock Polish literature. I think it's great that efforts are being made to accomodate everyone, especially our fellow EU citizens. Modern technology, travel and globalization have shrunk the world so that our neighbours are no longer just our fellow countyman or countryman, but also our fellow Europeans. And neighbours look out for each other.

[An Fear Dubh]

I am all for proper representation, that reflects the community, and having people in various public organizations that reflect, sex, race, religion and ethnic groupings that exist in our society. And where that society changes so to should an effort be made to change those public bodies.

But we need to understand the difference between, cosmetic change and genuine change. We can with a fanfare of PR set up some new recruiting initiative, but actually recruit no-one. We can engage in positive discrimination and recruit and promote on the basis of sex, race, religion and ethnic group. But first we must have a basic standard, that everyone must pass. One that is achieved, then we can use positive discrimination. It is an unwelcome tool, but it is a tool to correct an unwelcome imbalance.

For myself, policing is a difficult issue. I do not want to make the mistakes of the past. And the role and duty of the police must be entrusted to those of the highest standard. Hence there is a recruitment standard. I do not want people who do not reach that standard recruited just because they have an extra language, or come from one section of the community.

[Harry]

anfeardubh said:

I am all for proper representation, that reflects the community, and having people in various public organizations that reflect, sex, race, religion and ethnic groupings that exist in our society. And where that society changes so to should an effort be made to change those public bodies.

But we need to understand the difference between, cosmetic change and genuine change. We can with a fanfare of PR set up some new recruiting initiative, but actually recruit no-one. We can engage in positive discrimination and recruit and promote on the basis of sex, race, religion and ethnic group. But first we must have a basic standard, that everyone must pass. One that is achieved, then we can use positive discrimination. It is an unwelcome tool, but it is a tool to correct an unwelcome imbalance.

For myself, policing is a difficult issue. I do not want to make the mistakes of the past. And the role and duty of the police must be entrusted to those of the highest standard. Hence there is a recruitment standard. I do not want people who do not reach that standard recruited just because they have an extra language, or come from one section of the community.

Can't argue with this. There must be a standard which should be met and this standard shouldn't be waived for a select few because then can speak any foreign languages.

Am i mental for thinking that the police should be of a high standard?? I can't believe we are even debating this

[An Fear Dubh]

While I think the PSNI have still a long way to go. I must acknowledge the attempts to fascilitate change. Change is not easy, nobody likes it, and it upsets everything.

I think on the issue of Polish recruitment the PSNI have met the challenge. I think the fact that the Polish recruits did not met the standard is no reflection on the PSNI. Does making an extra effort mean lowering the standard expected?

Yes there are other ways, such as civilan workers within the police structures that could employ people who do come from a Polish background. But we have been talking about the media spotlighted story of the recruit drive of the PSNI for Polish applicants. We do not have figures (at least I do not) that relate to civilian workers and type of work within the police structures.

[Harry]

setanta said:

Hey I'm all for high standards.
BUT the PSNI could make that extra effort to bring in people from ethnic minorities just for a while.

As AFD has said does this extra effort mean dropping standards?? Look if 100 Polish passed all the entry requirements for entry into the PSNI the fantastic, employ the lot of them. No one is saying we don't want any Polish but only that these Ploish must meet the same standards as everyone else. What are the PSNI to do then mate?