Irish Language Act-One Opinion

[mactalla]

How about we just stop making excuses and learn the bloody language? We don't need the government to tell us its OK. There are resources everywhere for self learning, or you can organize a self study group with like minded friends. Use what you do know, even if it is only Dia dhuit or go raibh maith agat....every day. Speak it in your home with your children or grandchildren.

For an adult learner, fifteen minutes of study, daily, is more effective than two hours once a week. Everyone can find fifteen minutes in their day.

There is also a free online class being presented on the chat programme Paltalk, the second and fourth Sundays of every month. Next class is 28 April at 7PM Irish time. If you are interested, contact me for details.

[Jim]

How about we just stop making excuses and learn the bloody language

I completely fucking agree

I need to start relearning it because im having problems with big words. I found one of my old p7 books thats completely in irish and couldnt make the whole thing out and it annoyed me, I havent had a real conversation in irish in about 4 years and its taken its toll..

Mactalla could you put the details up here so more people can see it? im interested if I remember even just to listen.

[bearhunter]

Good man Mactalla. It's time to take the language back from those who have hijacked it for political ends.

[mactalla]

Jim and bearhunter, here is the information. Please understand this is beginning Irish. If your issue is simply upgrading some vocabulary then this may be too basic for you. However, as the instructor, I would be thrilled to have you there to assist in teaching the class. *G*

Information on the online Irish language classes

The language classes are held the second and fourth Sundays of every month, with a history class also held on the first Sunday.

US Times

2 pm eastern
1 pm Central
11am Pacific
12am Mountain

7pm Ireland Time

Download Paltalk at www.paltalk.com (this is a small programme and it is free)

To get to the classroom, open Paltalk
Click on rooms icon after opening paltalk
Click Social Issues and Politics
Click on Government & Politics
Click on Na Claoimhte Solais to enter Room
The Room will only be visible when the administrator has opened it

Please feel free to invite anyone who you know that would like to
learn more about our Irish History and language.

For anyone having a problem finding room in Paltalk, the administrator will have both his Yahoo and MSN messenger open
His MSN Messenger nick is: mise
His Yahoo nick is: prisonerse4

You can contact him and he can direct you to room if you are having a problem.

Any questions send them to [e-mail] and tell him you know mactalla.

[bearhunter]

What time in NZ? Oh, right, hang on it's there. 7pm Ireland, that's.....shite 6am NZ time. Looks like I'll have to get to work early!

[mactalla]

bearhunter said:

What time in NZ? Oh, right, hang on it's there. 7pm Ireland, that's.....nutse 6am NZ time. Looks like I'll have to get to work early!

LOL...we did not factor in anyone south of the equator. Audio of the classes are avaialbe on the NCS website, along with word or pdf files of each lesson. All of which you may download.

www.naclaoimhtesolais.com/

Scroll down about half way on the home page, click on Irish Lessons, and it will take you to the downloads.

[bearhunter]

Na bac liom, Gaeilgeoir mise ar aon chaoi. Ta speis agam ann.

[earl]

Can't argue with anyones views on this subject here. It's probably the most frank and honest discussion on the language that I've ever seen! Totally agree that it shouldn't be politicized, and that it shouldn't be used as a political tool.
SF have had a habit in the past of using it in this way, so many unionists have gone from not giving a fig to having a negative impression of it. No government legislation in either state on this island will make the language more popular or used more in every day life. The people have to go out there and make that happen themselves.

I think that immigration will be an extremely positive factor in the development of the language. Some scare mongers may feel that the increased competition in the language department could see the language flounder, but the way I see it, it will make Irish people appreciate it more now that other people live here with us and they are using their own languages amongst themselves. When I'm on the bus, I can here several different languages been spoken, and I always feel a pang of remorse that I can't have a conversation in my native tongue.

I was watching a programme on RTÉ 1 last night called 30 blian ag... Some of the people interviewed on the programme were young and they weren't entirely fluent in Irish, so they spoke this kind of cross breed of Irish with smatterings of English words and phrases. I found it very interesting the way they seamlessly jumped between the two languages without skipping a beat.

[Blue Angel]

mactalla is right in saying there is no excuse for not learning irish if you wish to. Only laziness which i plead guilty to, there are so many resources in the world as it stands now. I find it sad that so many people do not even realise we have our own national language - I was playing a CD in Irish the other day at work and the Spanish lady who works with me asked what was this language and was surprised to learn we have a language besides English:( She is Galician and was telling me about how the regional language there was in severe decline due to it been banned for many years by Franco's govt and how people were trying to restore it which was an interesting comparision.

[An Fear Dubh]

I would have thought that Setanta would have offered some defence of the criticism that Earl made of Sinn Féin's political bartering on the Irish language.

While I do acknowledge that Earl is correct on this point, things are more complex and the options available to SF were few.

If I may expand that slightly, to explain. First many agree across various political strands (including some unioinists) that the Irish language needs and is intitled to greater support. Political parties especially those who have been in government in the south have not done enough to develop the re-growth of the language. Leaving the bulk of the work to be done by small voluntary pressure groups, who lack funding and clout to achieve anything of substance. Fianna Fail as the off-shoot of the republican family had the greatest responsibility to help and very much was found lacking.

Republican activists do involve themselves naturally in the language and other cultural expressions. So SF had a choice, do they allow their activists to lobby alone and seperately. But if they do a conflict of interests may arise at some point. As can be seen in political parties in the south over the building of property in Gaeltacht areas. Better to adopt an active role on a issue that can bring deep emotions to the surface, rather than play safe and sit outside. Because regardless activists will become involved, and internal wrangling can be avoided.

So while I think at times SF have seemed to over politicise and bargined on behalf of the language. And that creates the negative for the people like Wasp who want to oppose everything that a republican suggest. The choices for them were not real choices but a route already laid down, it was a matter or making that path more road worthy or keeping it haphazard.

[Wasp]

setanta said:

republic said:

setanta



I remember reading an article about scandinavian countries who retained their native languages despite colonialism. Im very hazy on it, but ill try find that article anyway.

Just after thinking of the Jewish revival of Hebrew, a far more successful project than the revival of Gaeilge.

Finnish I think you mean, OK fair enough and you can add Basque and the most succesful revival was Flemish. (Sinn Féin delgates travelled to the Flemish Assembly to learn how they revived their language........ cue WASP bringing up Albert Folens )
But none of them or their native language speakers went through what Ireland did in the 19th centuary when we almost lost the language.

Thanks for the tip Setanta, I don't believe I ever heard of him. Oh another link for me to do with the nazis.

Only joking.

[An Fear Dubh]

Most seem to agree that laziness (or some might say the demands of day to day life has added pressures on our time commitments) contributes to our inability to learn the Irish language.

That said I am unsure of the positive aspect that highlighting some minor discrepancies of colleagues in their use of some Irish does to encourage those with even less to attempt a learning class. I feel this attitude is prevalent and is not constructive towards making the language a living breating thing everywhere rather than only in selected areas.

I know I cringe as I listen to the stilted tones of Gerry Adams as he stumbles through his obligitory opening comments 'as gaeilge' (in Irish). He is not a true 'gaeilgeoir' (Irish speaker), but the point he is making maybe lost on you. It is important to use what little you have, even if that is wrong.

Having been through school and only learnt a smattering it was not until during prison that got a better and workable understanding. I have often encountered the elitist attitude, oh you ex-prisoners all speak gaeilge the same! What wrong? No you use slang and improper grammer. Ah we speak like a language should be used, not like newsreaders and tv presenters who must speak differently to those sitting at home watching the tv.

No wonder your Cumann will still be making those motions long after you leave. How about you tell them to get real and broaden the appeal of the language not limit its appeal.

[bearhunter]

Well said AFD. I learned Gaeilge at my mother's knee (and other low joints) and it was a living, breathing, ever-changing language. When I arrived at school, smug in the knowledge that I was equally proficient in both Gaeilge and English, I was shocked to be strapped for speaking "peasant" Irish as one nun described it. This is the same kind of elitist shite that has held back other areas of cultural endeavour, particularly traditional music. The tweed suits of Comhaltas Ceolteoiri Eireann despised anyone who changed tunes or played any way other than how it was written down in their version. It strangled the tradition, which was based on tunes evolving as they are passed from one player to another. I well remember listening entranced to a piper playing ancient jigs and reels at a fleadh, only to be dismissed with a sniffy "Kitchen piping" from the judge, who was only pawing the walls behind the piper in terms of talent. Interestingly, while Gaeilge has been stymied by the severe grammatical correctness of dusty classrooms overseen by rabidly frothing, psychotic Christian Brothers, other languages are taught (in Ireland, anyway) in a fresh, relevant, conversational way. When I left school I was more proficient in German than I was in my own first language. Says a lot, don't you think?

[An Fear Dubh]

But that does not explain the cumann motions or the nit-picking over the use of a fada.

[An Fear Dubh]

To be honest I would not really be interested in what each cumann might be putting forward as motions to the upper levels.

My point is on the prevalent attitude that is found not just in one Sinn Féin cumann, but peppers Irish society. In education as Bearhunter pointed out from his own personal experience, and my own experiences in coming into contact with other established Irish bodies.

People who are interested in promoting the language need to make that appeal broader and less of a special club, that only rule following members can be part of. And as a republican that supports Sinn Féin, I expect my party to be at the forefront of addressing that elitist attitude not adding to it.