Peacewalls and Intergration

[Harry]

So there's no explaination??? None at all??? Not even a stab in the dark as to why it may be??? To me mate thats not good enough. Its all good going off course and talking about leaders, reciprocated gestures etc and on that i'd agree with you. Fact is SF take every opportunity in Ballymena to try and force issues, to try and create further divisions, i don't expect you to agree but thats the way i feel about them and i'd expect 99% of Unionists in the town would agree with me.

Only at the weekend SF were again at the top of the town filming marchers as they passed the chapel. They even succeeded in rerouting the march by about 10 yards as it had to go anticlockwise around the roundabout to keep it away from the chapel!!!! Bloody heros those boys!!! I've never encountered anything so petty in my whole life.

Its not your fault mate, you more than likely do a good job for SF and its unfair to label you because of your association with the party and how they are viewed in Ballymena. SF need to create a ghetto in Ballymena and they need a way of creating flashpoints to maximum their own affect in dealing with issues and showing how well they can represent the poor nationalist people of Ballymena. The old tried and tested parades issue seems like the trump card they will use to drive a further wedge between the 2 sides in Ballymena

[Harry]

Nobody is asking that anyone lies down. SF are determined to create flashpoints, so fuck it, let them create them and then live with the consequences

[An Fear Dubh]

Since I joined this forum I have taken a greater interest in the goings on in Ballymena but only through the various media sources. Harry makes some probing points, about the actions of SF in the area. And I must confess that I can see no reasonable response as to why the selective condemnation. And the same assumptions that Harry wrestles with also bother myself.

I note Harry's assessment and he is fair enough to say that the number of attacks against Catholics is greater, but that does not excuse the silence or manner that SF acts. It was reported that there has been some UVF split and that the 'Mexican' had started to stir things, and that prior to the march new paramilitary flags had been put up. My info from there is poor so until I get a better source, I am very unsure. I also understand that the march was supposed to be re-routed to a greater extent but that the PSNI changed that their reasons seem questionable. Also they blocked off areas very early while people were in the Catholic Chapel, and when soon after they left chapel they (mainly old people) were denied access to their homes a short walking distance away, and forced to take large detours. This seems a heavy handed approach. While none of this excuses SF, it does suggest that the under-current is a lot more complex. And we need to dig deeper.

[Wasp]

AFD wrote 'Also they blocked off areas very early while people were in the Catholic Chapel, and when soon after they left chapel they (mainly old people) were denied access to their homes a short walking distance away, and forced to take large detours.'

This is simply lies mate, I am not calling you a liar but those who have provided this information are quite simply liars. If I knew no different my automatic reaction would be 'those poor Catholics coming from mass' etc etc. This is the picture sinn fein are trying to help paint into there absurd actions through McKay. As I have sadi elsewhere out of several thousand nationalists at the top end of town only about a dozen or so turn up to protest, with McKay and his side kick breaking an agreement by standing in a cordoned zone with a note book and camera.

I know and have dealt with first hand Catholics who have been attacked and it is disgusting and MUST BE CONDEMNED. But many Protestants are attacked also and I am not so sure that Catholics suffer the most, maybe in some areas of the town they do, but in some areas Protestants suffer the most as well. I have witnessed republican attacks, I gave a full account to the police concerning one a number of years ago against two kids. Nothing was done about it.

Sinn fein are doing exactly what Harry has said they are doing and even Catholics in the rectory estate for example are embarrassed at what McKay has been saying. Now I could be lying to prove a point, but I would also be fooling myself and thatwill get us nowhere. I assure you all that I am telling the truth.

[Wasp]

Setanta you really are climbing the wrong tree here. This is not Drumcree or a flashpoint area. The amount of protestors whom some of at least live a few miles away should show you this. McKay's blatant lies should reaffirm this and show you exactly what sinn fein in Ballymena are trying to do. This makes me feel like banging my head against a brick wall because of the lies, any truth being twisted and widely exaggerated which is highly frustrating for those who know what really is going on and that includes Catholics in the area.

[Harry]

Look Setanta, SF are trying their hardest to create a flashpoint. Nobody on the market rd gives a toss about the marches, there has never been any calls for rerouting, there has never been any trouble on the market rd, i've walked the route in previous years and most occupants were out watching the parade. As WASP has said this isn't some flashpoint or some staunch republican area, its a simple road which would be quite mixed in terms of religious make up. Now when Ballykeel parade they go down William street, this is in the town centre but SF still turn up there demanding all sorts as it passes a few pubs which would have mainly Catholic drinkers, so this is deemed offensive also.

So we can't parade the market road or the town centre without SF reps there with their camcorders, i'd stick the camera up his fucking arse if i got hold of it. SF members there filming band members.....simply provocation, trying to goad the marchers and then SF can say look at this mob attacking people, shouting abuse for no reason!!!! Thats what they want, thats their whole purpose in being there, to cause friction.

SF want to create some sort of militant movement in the north of the town, they need friction, they need unrest because that is when they are at their best, manipulating people and situations for their own gains. Peaceful parades don't suit SF agendas. Peaceful residents with no objections to parades don't suit SF agendas.

There is no mass protest in Ballymena. SF and a handful of cronies is what turn up to protest, most people are either watching the parade or doing their own thing. If people were unable to get home from chapel to the market rd because of police operations then that needs looking at, there is no reason why they couldn't get home. If the police wouldn't let them through then they could of simply went round the back of the all saints centre, maybe a further minute walk, no major hassle although i'd agrre they should be able to walk whatever way they want free from blockage.

Good old SF, people can't get home, people are having to go right around town, people in wheelchairs being told they have to right around the town!!!! What a load of complete bullshit and SF know it. Don't try and tell me Mckay the geography of my own town cos i know your a bullshiter, SF were stumped because the marchers behaved, the marchers never responded to republicans sticking cameras in their faces and giving the footage to god knows who. SF had to try and create some sort of situation because the marchers weren't playing ball and giving them the proganda that they feed on, so they talk alot of bull about people stuck not able to get home

[Harry]

THERE has been a call for a Sinn Fein MLA to be removed from the Policing Board, amid claims he used his position to interfere in a PSNI operation.
Daithi McKay was one of two “monitors” from the nationalist community who entered an agreed “sterile zone” (or cordon) at the Pride of the Maine Flute Band competition on Saturday evening, in Ballymena.

The PSNI created the sterile area between sets of barriers, to ensure republicans and band members did not come face-to-face in the Market Street area of the town.

Unionist politicians are to raise the matter at the first meeting of the new board tomorrow.

Mr McKay has refuted allegations he used his position on the Board to gain access to the zone and claimed the calls for his removal were a smokescreen, because loyalist marchers broke aspects of a Parades Commission determination restricting the parade.

The PSNI, meanwhile, played down the protests of both unionists and republicanism.

It said that Mr McKay’s appearance in the exclusion area was allowed as a “proportionate” measure and said the parade complied with all aspects of the determination.

But parade organisers have claimed there was an agreement the cordon would not be breached - in a bid to prevent confrontation or incitement on either side.

Mr McKay, however, appeared within it holding a notebook and pen, accompanied by another Sinn Fein member who filmed the flute bands and supporters with a camcorder.

The Ballymena Parades Forum, in a statement to the News Letter, said: “We consider Daithi McKay’s actions as interference in a policing operation and an abuse of his position as a member of the Policing Board. We have requested UUP Parades spokesman Michael Copeland and DUP MLA Mervyn Storey MLA seek on our behalf meetings with the Secretary of State, the Chief Constable and the Chairman of the Policing Board (Sir Desmond Rea).

“The Parades Forum had been informed by senior police officers, regarding the creation of a sterile zone between the participating bands and so called republican monitors.

“We were told the integrity of the sterile zone would be maintained.”

The statement added: “Sinn Fein must
remove Mr McKay from the Policing Board.”

Mr Storey said: “I think Daithi McKay’s position on the board is totally untenable. He cannot be an impartial member of the board and involved in this situation.

“I hope there was no preferential treatment given to Mr McKay because of his role on the Policing Board.”

The DUP MLA added that he did not want to see the good relations between parade organisers and the PSNI jeopardised by what had happened.

He felt “the police were put in a very difficult situation” by Mr McKay and nationalist observers wanting ito the zone.

UUP Parades spokesman Michael Copeland said: “Daithi McKay must be removed from the Board by Sinn Fein. There is a clear conflict of interests and serious concern that he used his board membership to compromise and alter the nature of a delicate police operation.

“Serious questions have to be asked and answered.


Thankfully the parade passed off peacefully and was very successful and the bands did not react to the breach of the sterile zone which could have been viewed as an aggressive act or bid to antagonise.”

Daithai McKay was asked by the News Letter if he used his Policng Board position to talk the PSNI into gaining access to the sterile zone.

“Not at all,” he replied.

“Given the history of this particular parade there's obviously a need for nationalists in the area to be able to observe to ensure the Parades Commission determination is upheld.

“There were a number of breaches on Saturday and we will send a report on them."”

He continued: “What we did was not out of step with the police operation."”

Mr McKay also noted that Mr Storey was present as a steward for the parade which he alleged included bands displaying “loyalist paraphinalia”.

But Supt Alasdair Robinson (Operations Manager Ballymena) said: “The parade was very successful and carried out in accordance with the Parades Commission determination.

“Following the difficulties at previous parades where observers opposed to the parade came into close proximity a decision was made to separate observers with the tactical use of barriers,” concluded Supt Robinson.

[Harry]

Its pointless, you have no idea about Ballymena and simply are preaching off the SF hymn sheet. Not everything is the same, SF aren't whiter that white. It is possible that maybe SF are stirring the tensions or maybe they are a party with such morals that this could not be possible!!!!! Pull the other one

yeah cos they are all so nice people in Ballymena North, butter wouldn't melt in their mouths!! Perhaps the local SF boys could of maybe been a little more public in their condemnation of attacks like these
www.ballymenatimes.com/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=2574&articleid=1717681

they were probably to busy measuring the widths of the roads, just in case a marcher maybe stepped out of line and they could report it as a preach of the parades commission. Or maybe they were to busy out buying their latest camera to fim peaceful marchers with. Idiots

[Harry]

Covered what already??? You said that SF had condemned these attacks and would find where the info was??? result....you can't find it cos SF haven't done it and you have no explaination as to why?? This should then be simply brushed under the carpet!!! you don't wan't to discuss SF when they are wrong so you start talking about empty rhetoric and the like. Public SF condemnation would of meant a hell of alot to those famalies and maybe just maybe could of drained the life out of the onslaught.

But no, we have covered this already according to you??? We haven't even scratched the bloody surface. It doesn't suit and you have no way of defending SF so lets sweep those bad vibes away and concentrate on every other persons faults , but certainly not SF. Why do SF publically condemn and air their views when its Catholics are attacked if its only rhetoric??? Please Clarify this if you would?

You still don't seem to grasp the fact that where these parades go aren't stauchly nationalist or republican areas.

[Shades40]

Come the 12th of July I'll be camping in the hills of Conemara as last year this place was a ghost town unless you where an orangeman.

[Harry]

Let me ask a simple question i feel is relevant. Why do SF raise the issue of attacks on Catholics but remain silent when the victims are Protestant??? I don't want to hear the mention of the motion SF raised because you keeping using this to smudge the issue. SF still raise the issue of attacks on Catholics and remain silent when its Protestants? why why why??

Ive never mentioned anything about talking to the residents of Ballymena. I would support any talks between Marchers and residents, what i won't stand for is SF acting as the catalyst, SF being the reason behind any talks. The people of the Market Rd aren't bothered, there is no call for any re routing, it is simply SF driven without any local support.....how many times do i have to say this!!!!! If its the residents then we should be talking with them but i wouldn't talk to SF until they prove they speak for the residents of the market rd!!! As of yet they can't and rely on hangers on coming out of their way from Dunclug to show any protest and even theu are few and far between.

My problem isn't with the residents but with SF.

[Wasp]

Setanta you honestly have no idea about Ballymena and you seem to believe a tosser that hasn't a clue before those who do know. He may have been elected for different things, but not many of his voters turn up to protest. Harry is spot on with his account and TBH Setanta you are just promoting the same shite to do with Ballymena without knowing or wanting to know the truth. If it comes from sinn fein then it must be true, coming form a Unionist then it can't be, or some of it cannot be at least.

[Harry]

So the whole parades issue is simply a drive by SF to harbour more support for themselves. They are trying to create unrest and protest to the parades simply to push themselves into the limelight and show the nationalist people how much SF will do for them!!! This is what i've been saying all along!!!!! There is no issue of parades in Ballymena, it is simply SF stirring and stirring and stirring.

SF need unrest as i've said time and time again, that is how they get their foot in the door. The parades issue has been used by them for years and years as a way of gaining control in communities. When we bring this issue that we believe residents groups are all puppets for SF we are lambasted as ignorant, pig headed etc etc. We know what SF are doing, we have seen it time and time again.

I'd say your speculation is right Setanta only its not speculation, you know fine well that is exactly why SF haven't condemned any attacks on Protestants. They don't want to upset the applecart, they don't want to risk upsetting any potential voters. Yet SF bang on about us being hypocrits when they are as bad as anyone. You have the nerve to talk about Ballymena in the sense of 'do what i say but not what i do'!!!! Can't you see the irony in what you have speculated on???

[Harry]

Where just not grasping it at all. I'm saying to you that the residents on the market rd aren't interested. I'm saying to you that it is SF driving the protest without the majority of residents, if any!!! Now i need to prove to you that its not the majority of residents and you need to prove that McKay is speaking on their behalf??? Stop reading my all the same shit that SF spout everywhere they go, i'm not interested. You are assuming that Ballymena is just like all the other flashpoints so you are using all the same language about us not talking etc etc......try listening!!!!

The market rd isn't the bloody garvaghy rd. Me and every other Unionist in Ballymena don't believe that the residents have a problem. SF still haven't proved in anyway at all that they are representing the people of the market rd. If SF get votes from nationalist estates like Dunclug does that give them the right to use this mandate to create tensions in other areas??Does that give them the god given right to assume that they speak on behalf of the people on the market rd??? Do the people of the market rd not have the right to not oppose the parade?

Now i only know 1 catholic family on the market rd. Not a problem to them the parade, they actually moved there from Fisherwick for the very reason that they wanted to live in an area that wasn't controlled by republicans. Fisherwick was getting a bad name and turning into a republican ghetto so they moved to the market rd. Stop assuming that the market rd is some nationalist ghetto, stop assuming that their must be community calls for a rerouting. Your in SF get onto Mckay and let him prove to you that there is a majority of residents opposed to the parades??? Knowing 1 family means nothing but its something!!!

Where am i putting words in your mouth? SF haven't came out once and condemned any attcak on any Protestant. What they do is highlight all the attacks against Catholics individually on a case by case basis and then cleverly say at the end that all Sectarian attacks are wrong which then means that they an be covered for not highlighting attacks against Protestants. Why is this the case, surely their is some sectarian nature in this attitude is their not??? Its not equal thats for sure, its not fair thats for sure and whatever way you look at it its selective!!!!!!!!!

[Harry]

I think i need a chill pill for a few days.