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Post by Wasp on Aug 9, 2012 22:41:30 GMT
It has been said on here about the burning of tri-colours at 11th night bonfires etc and if memory serves me we were told republicans dont do that etc. Once again I see the republican bonfires up with Union flags draped over them.
Now I would be a hypocrite to kick up a stink, that is not my point, while its weird people who live under the Union flag and take the same countires benefits etc would burn the flag, my point is that bothsides do it. Not just the big bad Prods.
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Post by leeside on Aug 10, 2012 1:00:09 GMT
It has been said on here about the burning of tri-colours at 11th night bonfires etc and if memory serves me we were told republicans dont do that etc. Once again I see the republican bonfires up with Union flags draped over them. Now I would be a hypocrite to kick up a stink, that is not my point, while its weird people who live under the Union flag and take the same countires benefits etc would burn the flag, my point is that bothsides do it. Not just the big bad Prods. The main difference though wasp is that the burning of tricolours, pope effigies, disgusting banners mocking suicides, polish flags, posters of polish candidates and any other symbols of the CNR community etc is seen as a cultural celebration in the PUL community and has a specific date in the PUL calendar assigned for it. Families then bring their kids to 'celebrate' this overt and tangible hatred of the CNR community as though to hate is normal behaviour. Breeding another generation of intolerance and bigotry in the process. Also i dont think anyone ever suggested that republicans dont do it all. But im pretty sure its only a tiny fraction compared to the annual celebrated loyalist bonfires that celebrate hatred of the CNR community. Jesus wasp, you'd swear that you were unaware of the political problems that exist in your own country. You do realise that a significant proportion of the people of NI do not identify with the Union Jack in any way shape or form, dont you? BTW, are you suggesting that all those involved in the republican bonfires are on benefits? |
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Post by Wasp on Aug 10, 2012 10:01:27 GMT
There is no difference full stop.
The date for republican fires is also a specific date so no difference and they also promote there vile hate.
That is a complete twisting of facts.
How do you measure that when republican bonfires are littered with the same things republicans complain about in loyalist bonfires.
I do, wouldnt it be more suitable if they would go to the country that they identify with?
Did I say that?? Many are though considering the areas the fires are in and the layabout attitude of many youths throughout the UK.
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Post by leeside on Aug 10, 2012 15:05:35 GMT
You seem to be in the mood for a fight but seeing as the weather is so nice and I'm enjoying Ireland's boxing victories too much I'm not going to entertain it today.
One question I will ask you though is ......what are your views on loyalist bonfires where tricolours with KAT written on them, mockings of suicide victims, polish flags, polish candidates, effigies of popes etc...are burned and adults bringing their kids to witness this ugly behaviour. No whataboutery, wasp just please tell me your views on this.
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Post by Wasp on Aug 10, 2012 23:08:39 GMT
Believe me I am in no mood for a fight, I am giving what I see as the way things are.
First of all I have never seen anything other than a tri colour being burned, effigies of the pope are bad taste but from a selfish point of view I would see it more as light hearted. Anything to do with suicide victims are absolutley disgusting and those who placed them should be ashamed of themselves. I also condemn the placing of Polish flags etc but that was not widespread or anywhere near it. There were many bonfires that didnt have polish flags etc on them.
I have heard those from republican side joke about those from the loyalist side and vice versa over things like suicides and car crashes and it is absolutley disgusting and I know the majority of families attending these fires would also be disgusted at anything like that. There is no excuse for celebrating anyones suicide especially a young persons. I partly work with people who have been affected by suicide and that has no part to play in any celebrations.
The burning of the tri colour is in deifance to the republics inability and unwillingness to fight republican terror against the people of N.I and also there claim over N.I. But the biggest thing about burning the flag is that up here the flag symbolizes the ira and republican terror, this is the flag used in ira areas with ira wrote on them and that is the main reason the flag is burned. I have no problem with that. If it was to simply insult or offend southern Irish people then it would be a big NO NO from me.
I hope that explains my position fairly.
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Post by leeside on Aug 11, 2012 13:41:52 GMT
Do the tri-colours have KAT written on the ones you see wasp? I've seen loads that do. How do you think that looks to the CNR community? How do you expect them to respect your culture when that behaviour is seen as normal and justified by yours?
Isnt the burning of the union Jack and NI flag also an act of defiance to what nationalists see as a flag(s) of bigotry and intolerance to the CNR community??!!
Should those who hate and are so intolerant of Irish culture, Irish catholics and Irish symbols not conveniently also just fuck off to a country that isn't on the island of Ireland. It would make their lives so much easier.
Wasp, I hope you realise my comments are mainly tongue and cheek as im mirroring alot of your views. Isnt it clear that a mutual respect for eachothers symbols, religion and culture is what is needed as opposed to a celebration of ones hatred for the other? You sound as hardline and intolerant as any rabid republican i've ever heard tbh.
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Post by Wasp on Aug 11, 2012 15:53:32 GMT
never, any bonfires I have ever been at there has also been a number of catholics enjoying the celebrations.
What are you referring to as normal for my culture? Also compared to the amount that celebrate the 12th there are very few attending bonfires, mainly some of the locals in the area. Many people like myself drive around to view the spectacle of the bonifres.
Those nationalists who hold that view then should hold that view when it comes to ANYTHING British such as benefits, employment, education etc etc. If I lived in the republic there is no way I would agree with burning the tri-colour especially if the same country supplied me or my family or my relations with wide ranging benefits and also the fact out of respect for the country I live in.
There should be no place for people like that but those people you are talking about do not live down south and if they did I would fully agree with you.
I honestly cannot see how I sound hardline. I fully support religious freedom, freedom to work in any type of job, freedom to live anywhere without fear or prejudice and the freedom to express and celebrate ones culture. You are taking the issue of bonfires and having that as covering all our culture and representing our culture by itself which is highly unfair. If there was a parade in memory of a loyalist killer who targeted catholics then I would be nowhere near it. The hatred shown between both cultures is evident but it does not represent both cultures nor should it be allowed to.
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Post by leeside on Aug 15, 2012 15:33:53 GMT
Wasp, as long as you and other loyalists see the burning of Irish Tricolours on hundreds of bonfires across the north as perfectly normal and justified, many of which having the initials KAT written on them as well as other disgusting slogans and taunts.... then dont be surprised if a handful of bonfires are burnt in republican areas adorned with loyalist symbols in response. Also, dont be surprised if the following day republicans object or simply refuse to let those same people who cheered and celebrated on the previous night the burning of the tricolour and other Irish symbols, from marching triumphantly in full regalia through their neighbourhoods.
Respect needs to work both ways, wasp.
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Post by Wasp on Aug 15, 2012 21:36:45 GMT
Why do you keep adding and twisting, not once did I say it was normal or justified to have KAT or anything else on them, I explained my position on the tri colour being burned and also my position on other points you made.
These are not done in response, they have always been done at republican bonfires.
Again you are bowing things way out of porportion and twisting facts. Of all the families and band members who are watching/taking part in a parade how can you assume they were all at a bonfire with such flags being burned on them. These parades are a celebration of culture, there are many parades over the marching season attended by tens of thousands of people but only one night of bonfires attended by a fraction of those who attend parades so dont try and mix the two. You say its marching triumphantly, that is not the case. It is bands in colourful display, marching in a disciplined fashion playing near perfect music showing why they should be the envy of many artists throughout the world.
You cannot blame everyone who attends a pardade or who takes part in a parade for the displaying of sick slogans etc. As time has moved on and the ROI has further distanced itself from republican terrorism then bonfires should not now have the tri colour on them out of respect for those in the ROI who are showing respect for PUL culture.
I couldnt agree more
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Post by leeside on Aug 15, 2012 23:05:24 GMT
Condemning it would be a good start.
Look, Wasp... I honestly cant be arsed getting into debates about this stuff anymore as if bores me to be honest and i frankly dont really care that much anymore.
Republicans hate loyalists. Loyalists hate republicans. Ye burn their shit. They burn yer shit. They dis-respect yer shit. Ye dis-respect there shit. Ye act like bigots. They act like bigots. etc etc etc..
Its tiring.
Anyways, how are you? Weather is shit down here. Hows your son getting on? You got any holidays planned?
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Post by Wasp on Aug 16, 2012 21:44:50 GMT
Condemning it would be a good start. Look, Wasp... I honestly cant be arsed getting into debates about this stuff anymore as if bores me to be honest and i frankly dont really care that much anymore. Republicans hate loyalists. Loyalists hate republicans. Ye burn their shit. They burn yer shit. They dis-respect yer shit. Ye dis-respect there shit. Ye act like bigots. They act like bigots. etc etc etc.. Its tiring. Anyways, how are you? Weather is shit down here. Hows your son getting on? You got any holidays planned? Consider it condemned, I have always condemned acts like that and in no way support it. Things arent all bad up here, it would surprize you the amount of people with family/friends etc from the 'other' side but unfortunately one street corner can have it sound as though we are all at eachothers throats. To confuse things even more here is two good examples. A friend of mine about 6weeks ago got beat up in a totally unprovked sectarian attack. A Catholic himself got set upon by a group of so called republicans simply because they saw him leave the British Legion where he has a drink. An ex uvf mans son hangs around with these same thugs and recently put in a prods door for his republican drug dealing mate. He also has been involved in various attacks. Only tonight people in the area both Protestant and Catholic marched to the police station to hand in a protest about the lack of police action. How fucked up is that?  All that aside the weather up here is shit but we had a brill time in Turkey for our holidays which was a much needed break for us after the death of my father several months ago. Still absolutely devasteed about it. He didnt have a political bone in his body unlike myself. What about yourself? |
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Post by leeside on Aug 16, 2012 22:45:25 GMT
Thats is very fucked up indeed. I guess its very true when you say that things are not always as black and white in NI as some would have us believe.
Im very sorry to hear about your dad, Wasp. My condolences to both you and your family. I lost my own dad a couple of years ago so i guess i might have a little understanding of what you might be going through. I had a very fractious relationship with my dad but thankfully before he passed away we had found peace with eachother and became friends again. He was a difficult man. Im just grateful that we were on good terms when he did die as my freshest memories of him are positive and without bitterness.
Heading to Greece in september for 3 weeks island hopping. Really cant wait. Love the adventure of travelling. Took 3 weeks unpaid leave from work. Going to be seriously broke when i get back though. But fuck it...only 'young' once right? :-)
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Post by Wasp on Aug 17, 2012 22:19:39 GMT
Definately not mate, sometimes when I debate on here I think this cant be the same NI I am talking about. Heres another spanner for the works for you. A few months ago I was told I was going to be shot like all prods deserved to be shot froma well known drug dealing republican thug. The people who defended me were all catholics, all the witnesses were catholic and the ones to complain about the lack of police action were catholic. A close relative of the person who threatened me was someone that I helped raise money for to go through a life saving operation so everyhting is not black and white.
Thank you so much, its still like yesterday for us and I cant see us ever getting over it, just learning to deal with it better through time.
I am very sorry for your loss and thank Gd that you both found peace together. We can all have difficult personalities but our own experineces in life can paint a picture as to why we are what we are.
That must be a real comfort for you and I genuinely mean that from the bottom of my heart. Believe it or not a few weeks after my dads funeral a relation of an ex irish pm came to my mums house, I hadnt a clue at first who he was but he said he was up this way on business and heard about the death of my father when he came up. We had a very long chat and this man was a true gent. It wasnt until after he left that my mum said exactly who he was and believe me the ex pm in question is someone I despised. So again nothing is black and white.
Good for you , ye jammy sod. Greece is beautiful although I have only been to the mainland. We were meant to do a day trip from Turkey to Rhodes but didnt find the time. Hope you have a great holiday and dont soak up to much sun.
You see we are not that different afterall.
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Post by Original Admin on Sept 19, 2012 1:23:38 GMT
my condolences on your loss WASP,
Setanta.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 19, 2012 20:46:28 GMT
Thank you Setanta, appreciated
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